read.cash needs to be a MeRiToCrAcY

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Avatar for Cain
Written by
4 years ago

Dear @read.cash,

I love the idea of the read.cash fund, but I think it can be dramatically improved. Currently the fund is distributed based on a complicated points system that rewards users for interacting with the site. For example, you earn 20 points for posting an article over 500 characters and 4 points for posting comments with 60 characters or more. If your article gets 100 views, you get another 20 points, and 50 points for 10 thumbs up, and so on. I understand the thought process was to have these points encourage more engagement with the site, but I believe high quality content will do that on its own.

It's fascinating how quickly people's behaviors changed once the incentives changed. Suddenly I see the same people posting comments on every article just to get those 4 points. It takes almost no effort for them to do this, but it also provides almost no value, maybe even negative value, to the site. Same for posting an article that doesn't get viewed by anyone. I am sometimes seeing the same person posting article after article with zero views to earn 20 points for each one. The people who are doing this are siphoning away funds from actual content creators who are putting their time and energy into producing quality content, not to mention the work to promote that content through various channels. Basically, it makes no sense to me that someone who wrote an article that gets 100 views earns the same amount of points as someone who posts 2 articles that get 0 views.

With that said, in my humble opinion the points system should be changed to only factor in views and thumbs up. This way you don't encourage low quality comments or articles. You encourage people to produce quality content as well as encouraging them to promote that content as much as they can. For example, ever since the fund was created, I generally get a disbursement of around $0.20/day. This is definitely not enough to attract quality content creators. Had the fund been based purely on views over the past 24 hours, I would have earned about $5, which is at least enough to buy a cheap meal. I calculated this by quickly seeing how many total views the approximately 200 articles posted in the last 24 hours received (1866 views). Now imagine a real content creator came along and posted something that generated 18,000 views. That person would have earned ~$20, which isn't going to make them rich, but it might make it worth their while to promote this site, especially if they could generate that much on a daily basis.

I love read.cash and think it has the potential to be a killer app. But it needs more content creators, high quality content creators, and I think the best way to attract them is by rewarding them appropriately. I know there could be flaws in this proposed system I haven't considered, but I believe it would definitely be an improvement over the current system. Perhaps half the funds awarded solely based on views, and the other half based on total thumbs up.

For a while now, I've seen this site as an opportunity to see how well a true meritocracy can work. I think that if the incentives are aligned properly, we could see a huge increase in traffic. The more traffic the site gets, the more paid sponsors will show up, and the more money the site will earn overall, a portion of which can be redirected to the fund. Imagine if the fund reached $1,000,000. That would be $5000 distributed to content creators on a daily basis, definitely a great incentive for people to think up new ways to draw people to their articles.

My last post wasn't my normal fare, but I've been experimenting with different types of articles to see how many views I can generate. I recently wrote a review of the Cryptopia documentary, commissioned a transcription of the latest Coinspice podcast, as well as the click-baity post on the top 5 worst replies to the Rowling tweet. I think more people would try different ways to generate views if they believed it would be worth their time.

Being able to tip content creators directly is awesome, but I think the real power of this site comes from it being built on top of BCH, allowing for fast, cheap and reliable transactions that makes something like the read.cash fund even possible. I have no doubt this site can be a preeminent example of what can be achieved with a truly merit based ecosystem. Rewarding someone for just trying is socialist. Let's not hand out participation trophies like the rest of society.

Please know I greatly admire what you have done with this site and am amazed at how much progress has been made in such a short period of time. I hope you read this and know that it comes from a passionate user who simply wants what's best for the site. My guess is you are already working on improving it and didn't need to hear it from me, but I thought I'd put this out there anyway.

P.S. I also think the thumbs up and thumbs down should show all reactions. The more information the better. I'd rather know I got 50 thumbs up and 40 thumbs down than just the net number overall. I know Reddit just shows the overall as well, but I think this site can be infinitely better than Reddit.

40
$ 3.75
$ 1.00 from @Read.Cash
$ 1.00 from @DavidRAllen
$ 1.00 from @MarcDeMesel
+ 9
Avatar for Cain
Written by
4 years ago

Comments

Good

$ 0.00
4 years ago

I strongly support @cain for deeply looking into the reward system. Content creators need to be rewarded greatly, but the reward should be based on the quality of the content created. I urge writers to bring on board quality and original contents. "Immediately the NON-OC syndicate was removed, I noticed many plagiarized and copy pasted articles flowing in"...... This is bad! Another headache is the high influx of low quality, nonedited contents into the platform on daily basis. "I trust team read.cash, some reasonable actions will be taken soonest".

$ 0.00
4 years ago

See my reply above. We will take steps to remedy the situation. As we've said, we didn't remove the OC detector, it's just hidden away from the sight now. The moderators of communities will have all of this information.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Thank you for this prompt reply. I can now understand clearly that the OC detector is not removed but hidden. Thank you.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Hi Cain!

We absolutely agree with you that "point farming" (as we call it) is currently a thing and we're aware of it.

Though I think you misunderstood the goals of read.cash and therefore of the fund. We actually have one goal: to make as many people use Bitcoin Cash as possible - getting the whole World to use Bitcoin Cash (which will have a nice side effect of pumping the price ;) so stock up!).

That doesn't mean that we should just give money to people who copy-paste articles or comments from other sites, but that also means that we shouldn't give $20 of $22 daily to just one person. Frankly, even if the fund will give out 50% to just one person - that would be a huge failure based on our goal.

So, yeah, we're working on something, but it'll take time. I understand it's frustrating to wait, but we just don't have that many spare hands and heads. Thinking takes time, analysis takes time.

To give a hint a little bit about the future. Communities will play a much bigger role in the future (frankly we didn't have a plan for them for some long time, but the last two weeks we've been analyzing things and finally understanding how they need to work). Moderators will finally be getting compensated too. Moderators will have much more power to shape their communities.

Frankly, $22 per day is way too little for anything, especially a goal as grandiose as "getting the whole World to use Bitcoin Cash", but we do have a plan. Six months ago we had nothing, today we (a secret!) just barely but reached the size of yours.org and 5 months ago yours.org was 42(!) times bigger!

I understand the frustration, I mean that's why @aschatria decided not to wait and leave, slamming the door on the way out, but frankly we just don't have that many spare hands to fix everything that fast. Every single stupid button takes days to develop, test and debug :) We could of course release everything as soon as it seems ready, but we'll be repeating the history of honest.cash with interface being constantly in a different state of brokenness.

Oh, yeah, as for the views and upvotes. Well, 10000 visitors costs about $5-$15 on Fiverr and registering another 10 accounts on read.cash to give yourself upvotes is free and doesn't take that much time. On my previous work I used to have the anti-cheating department, but there were 5 guys just constantly programming all day long (you can figure out the price to do that yourself given the average salary of a programmer of $60K/yr to $150K/yr) all kinds of tools and detectors. It's just not possible at the moment, so we can't reduce the point system to such simple measures right now.

$ 0.12
4 years ago

Yup just as I said in my post I figured you guys were one step ahead of me ;) Excited to see what you have in store. I am hugely optimistic about read.cash.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

I was the one who was reporting spam and I am newbie, Ash simply checked if I made a mistake. She left because you told her that you will punish her for a few cursing words and not the spammers for stealing pockets full of money. First, I think that was unfair from your side considering Ash cares and she wrote on the MemoCash that she has 10 years of experience on the similar websites. Second if you hand out the money you should check where it goes. I saw you excluded some people I found, but I will no longer report anything as it was not welcomed.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Well, consider this. If a new user would call other user "you f...g. c...t" - he would have been banned immediately just for that. Insults are forbidden by the rules, this is not Twitter or Reddit. We gave another chance to ash. We also never told her that we're not going to punish these guys. Read our response carefully (the second part), it's right there even in her screenshot: "We don't think it's OK to spam the platform and we're working on some things that should bring the quality of posts up. In the meantime if you don't like something - you are free to block it." aschatria wanted that we immediately release a software that isn't ready (that is going to track this and remedy the situation) and left - that's her choice. But we never claimed that we're not going to do anything. Software takes time. Each button, each interface takes days and weeks to properly debug. We don't want our software to ban/hide innocent people, so it takes time. ash didn't want to understand that.

$ 0.01
4 years ago

Wait for a moment. Nobody asked you to develop a software for this. Why are you even talking about the software? I am a person and not the software and could see them and check them without any software. Are you telling me that you saw the Ash cursing before you saw multiple people constantly posting the trash on your website, and all these guys were ripping the reward pool for days without any repercussions? But you saw one single benevolent person reacting and suddenly you felt the need to pressure the proper language format? You know what. It is your website. So you do what you wish to do with it. My personal opinion is that this is very bad because you already gave amiable sum of money to the scammers, and you would continue giving them if nobody interfered. So you find yourself offended. Very well. Fight scammers on any terms you like. It is not my money.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

read.cash is a software. In order for us even to have a button "ban user" we need to write software. In order for us to fight spam we need to write software. Every button that an admin can push on this site on this site is software that needs to be written. We can't see everything people do, we don't have a huge moderator team, we don't have a huge programmer team, we have a few hours a day to see what's happening and react somehow.

We can't even read all mentions to us - there is just way too many things happening on the site.

Of course as we noticed people gaming the system we started to think about how to counteract it. We can't just ban a user - he just registers two new accounts in 2 minutes. It's not effective. We need something smarter and that can track hundreds (now) and soon thousands of users simultaneously on site. If you have a way to do it without writing a software, with one guy spending a few hours a day on the site - I'd love to hear it.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

You already have a report button next to the each post and comment made. I recommend that you read those reports and control your environment from the backend. I just assume that you know how to work with the user databases and that you do not need any new buttons visible on the website for your administration team. With one simple thing you could avail the entire ordeal that was put onto the full display. I have nothing else to add.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Wait, you seriously assume we're so incompetent that we don't know how to read the reports and press the buttons? :)

$ 0.00
4 years ago

You want an easier way to stop cheating? Put upvotes and comments on chain. People wont spam if they have to pay for it.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

There's memo.cash for that, for sure. That's would be in direct contradiction to read.cash's main goal: getting the whole World to use Bitcoin Cash, because in that case you'd have to have Bitcoin Cash to start using Bitcoin Cash. :)

$ 0.00
4 years ago

You can maybe keep the normal comments still optional for new users but don't give it any points. Only on chain operations give them points.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

See my reply here - it's going to create the same "pay to get paid" loop.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Actually, also, people WILL spam easily :) I mean you can easily buy thousands of upvotes on memo.cash for less than $10. It's easier than buying unique visitors actually :)

$ 0.00
4 years ago

You can always set a minimum of how expensive you want your upvote tx to be? Still there is a time cost + tx fee costs which is way better than only time costs for the spammers (and way cheaper for read.cash team to moderate it)

$ 0.00
4 years ago

I mean then you're creating a fast feedback loop for the cheaters - spend some money to get some money in return. You would need to be really careful to make sure that the payout is always lower than the price of the upvotes necessary. That means that the price of upvotes need to go higher and higher as the fund gets more money, because if you need to spend less than $500 to get $501 in return - people will do that, raising the price of upvotes and making them inaccessible to people who don't want to cheat.

But anyway, it's still against our main goal (to get people who never used Bitcoin Cash to use Bitcoin Cash in the first place).

$ 0.00
4 years ago

You can always look into the history of the address issuing the tx and give it a credit similar to reddit points, ignoring participant below that credit score.

But I get what you mean, you still want a free way to participate in the platform. I like the idea of sponsoring the new users fee better than this but you know your platform better.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

i understand your point. and making as many people use Bitcoin Cash as possible is a great goal. but i think there is alot of work still to do to improve the points system in a way that guarentee you won't lose the quality content makers only to end up with a platform full with copy-paste or meaningless articles. That's for your part to do. in the other hand we also have to help making your work easier with being patient and keep improving, because obviously a better content will automatically mean a better platform and more people joining. improving this platform means is a shared mission between read.cash developers and the content creaters. i also think that it's our duty to give you some ideas to make the experience better but of course in the limit of your budget and your spare hands. we all want to see read.cash on the top and i think a little bit of patience from our side and keeping the hard work from yours is the only key to achieve that. we will be waiting for updates about the new system point. thanks for your replay!

$ 0.00
4 years ago

i do agree with the point that content creaters are getting way less then the effort they put in their articles. for exemple, I spend 2 days on one of my articles, reading, searching and checking the infos about it. But literally i ended up getting the same amount as some "childish" articles... and also the comments part...It's ok to get points for being interactive with the authors and articles BUT the comments should make a sense, not just random.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

See my reply above.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Strongly Agree!

$ 0.00
4 years ago

See my reply above.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Preach!

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Very nice article, I recommend reading it to everyone, best regards hahahaha

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Very well put....

$ 0.00
4 years ago

I agree. It would reduce skimming. But I dont want to see thumbs down because of groups targeting users posts they dont like. They would target all the persons posts. This happens on Uptrennd.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

We're monitoring this. Right now the ratio of downvotes to upvotes is about 1:50 (so there are 50 upvotes for each downvote), so I don't think it's a problem now, but we'll be looking for it. If it starts to grow disproportionally, we'll think of something (maybe letting only high-profile users downvote, maybe a way to find downvote brigades, etc..) cc @Cain you might be interested in this fact too

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Appreciate that oversight :) thanks

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Personally I believe the point system encourage new authors, and turn some into emergent writers (which is not bad) ultimately bringing movement to the site. We must play ease as 4 points doesn't actually means a lot of money so yo need hundred of 60 char comments to actually make some profit. Bad comments, copycated from article can be flagged and users recieve penalties when there's enough flags on their username.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Yes I do agree on what you commented there.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Well, I can agree. Actually for me in this site is annoying a lot of spamming people. Nice and interesting post ! Waiting for more

$ 0.00
4 years ago

I have noticed something a writer has commented on my two articles with the same sentence and words how will that be dealt with??

$ 0.00
4 years ago

You've raised some points that are worthy of note. In the area of articles receiving points based on number of views, or thumb ups, I think the read.cash algorithm has to be changed to give every article equal chances of being read or discovered, so that the reader will then decide which one is of high quality and which one is not.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Well put thought. I think the spam option can be pretty useful in this scenario.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

This is what i have been eager to read for. Form the very first day i was confuse about this .how can one ge point easy just comenting some useless words. That dosn't mean anything to authore.hope this system improves and only gain mainly to the quality content writers.people are simply comenting randomly just to get some point and get bch needlesly.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

The solution is quite simple, flag the useless comments enough times and penalties can be set. No need to change the whole system for it, as cheaters always exists in fearsome numbers and they probably will get a way around it anyway.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Spam everywhere, there are users with 5 random articles everyday, i lost 10$ in my first article with miss tip received from @Koush, posted a claim in forum 2 weeks ago and nobody answer it. It is very easy lost motivation in this site.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

We actually talked to Koush multiple times about it. It happens to him occasionally, but each time we try to debug it with him, the problem just goes away. Currently we assume that this is due to Koush's connection, but it's only a guess. If you have a problem the best way to reach us is not the forum, but email hello@read.cash

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Site is still going through growing pains.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Not actually agree. Point system is an encouragement for new authors that write content (maybe not so good) as stablished authors. They have the also the right to earn some from the fund. These will bring the site movement although it maybe spamming. In previous system almost no one got payed. What's probably better is to set minimum views, as for the likes is irrelevant you can get likes by cheating. And remember if your content is really good you will be probably tipped, don't need to take from the fund if you are a good author.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

I think this should be considered and also commenting on an article and I also agree with the comments it should have a limit of over 60 characters before you can get some points. if not it should not be awarded

$ 0.00
4 years ago

That won't help. There will be users who will use copy paste to make irrelevant comments with more than 60 characters under each article.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

But relevant messages should also be considered but how will this work?? What will be used to check for relevant and irrelevant comments? I think you even get points for replying on a comment. Is that one too needed??

$ 0.00
4 years ago

I don't have a solution either, but the least is that comments and articles inserted with copy paste would be recognized as such.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Do you mean technically detect copy pasting? That is not a good idea. I always write offline and copy paste my articles (although not comments). Perhaps I do some changes online but I never write online. That doesn't mean that I steal my articles, which I have never done in my whole life.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

No, I mean automatic detection of plagiarism, i.e. copying from foreign sources and stealing content. Of course it should be possible to copy and paste from your own source.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Yes okay, that makes sense. Yes I am all in favour of stopping plagiarism.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

This is a very good article. I agree that the points system should be improved. Just another thoughts. A content creator with viewers, thumbs up and votes should be credited a little bit more to appreciate the effort of creating their own content.

I think the original point system could be maintain with an addition of a system that deduct point for spammers. With this it could possibly reduce the amount of writers that just write for the sake of gaining that free points given. I do hope @read.cash read all of this. I am quite new here but compare to the other blogging platform that I have, I quite like it here with all the rules though it does need a little bit more upgrade.

For sure, it is not easy to get someone to view and leave a token for things that we write here too. Once we write, the older article will be buried under new article before even get the chance to be read, except if the article is boosted.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

Absolutely with you on this 100%. There are SO MANY ways that the system can be played with that it's not easy to get around this. Having said that, here are my thoughts:

Some of your suggestions are great. Do it based on the views and upvotes but then what do you do when a lot of people form their own communities and become self serving and self sufficient. I think this is a bigger problem and I would like to see how the platform tackles this. I have some ideas on this but I don't want to make it public.

One thing I would strongly advocate is, as a user, actively but responsibly downvote bad content. That should be a good start.

$ 0.00
4 years ago

I think the current strategy of payouts is to ensure more and more users join and remain active. Once the word is spread, there might be changes to the system

$ 0.00
4 years ago

I agree generally. But I think payout is also bigger than just content creation. Then again just sbumitting posts, that actually don't have much value or no views or upvotes should not result in points. That's true. As soon as the submitted articles are valued only then I think points should be given out to creator and curator/moderator.

$ 0.05
4 years ago

To be honest I don't think I would totally agree with you on the idea of not giving points to articles with 0views or 0 thumbs up. This will destroy the motivation of many non-popular authors here in read.cash. You were lucky enough to get over 100subscribers that read your post everyday but this is not the same for many authors in read.cash. Some authors here barely has upto 20subscribers thereby not being able to get much thumbs up or much views. Again I have seen very good articles that are hidden under the pile of other articles making it not to get views and thumbs up. I think they should just find a way to make good content articles more gainful than to just crap points for 0viewed articles. Thank you.

$ 0.00
4 years ago