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How To Turn Reddit Into a Bitcoin Cash Marketing Machine Using Chaintip

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Avatar for dave_gutteridge
Written by   181
1 year ago

Every now and again I see someone on the r/btc subreddit propose that people with a little BCH to spare should go around to other subreddits and tip people using Chaintip.

If you're not familiar with Chaintip, it's very simple. It's a bot that allows you send someone an amount of BCH through a comment on Reddit. All you have to do is reply to someone's comment or post, and write in the amount of BCH you want to send, and boom, that's it. There is a simple syntax you have to use so the bot will see your comment, but it's very easy to use. The process is also pretty simple for the person receiving your tip. And once they've set it up once, it's even easier thereafter.

In principle, the idea of getting people interested in Bitcoin Cash by giving them some is something I not only agree with, I've strongly advocated for it in previous articles I've written here on Read.cash. People are motivated by getting something, not by explanations.

But... I think that giving random tips to people with Chaintip is not likely to be enough to move anyone's interest meter.

Think about it this way. Let's say someone came up to you out of the blue and said, "hey, I like what you just did, let me give you one Moroccan Dirham." Now, you, the person reading this, might already know what a Moroccan Dirham is, but I had never heard of it before just now, when I looked up the currency of Morocco, a country I picked at random for this example.

Would I be thrilled to get this free money? Or would I just be confused? It's not really an exciting opportunity for me to learn about Moroccan Dirhams, because I'm not going around looking for new currencies in my life. I think I would appreciate the gesture, but when I look up online and find out that one Moroccan Dirham is worth ten US cents, that's where it would end for me. I wouldn't even bother finding out how, let alone if, I could spend it or convert it into a currency I understand.

If I received the equivalent of ten dollars in some weird new currency I've never seen, I'd be more motivated to find out what to do, but there would be a limit to how far I would put energy in. If the amount got up to fifty or a hundred bucks, then I'm more committed.

Those numbers expose my privilege. For different people, the rates will be less, or more, but everyone has their ranges. There's a floor amount that's too small to bother with, and a range above that where difficulty and benefit have to be weighed against each other.

So, in summary, I don't think giving some random person out on Reddit a small amount of BCH in a Chaintip does much to win people over. It's like throwing Moroccan Dirham's at people who have never been to Morocco.

There is potentially a better way.

What I'm about to propose requires two things. One is a fund of money of a few tens, to hundreds, to maybe thousands of dollars. This can be raised through the community, or particularly motivated BCH evangelists or companies, or whatever. The exact amounts will become clear in a bit, but the point is, it will have to be enough to matter to people.

The other thing needed is a bot that builds on what Chaintip does and can do just a little bit more monitoring of Reddit activity. I don't know how to make bots on Reddit, so I couldn't do this myself, but I do know enough about coding to know this should definitely be possible.

Just for ease of explanation, let's put a name to the bot or system that I'm proposing. We'll call it Votecash. I'm not married to that name, it doesn't really matter for now.

Anyway, here's what Votecash would do. First, a fund is raised, and then a value amount is assigned to each Reddit vote. Let's say we decide each vote is worth 5 US cents. And let's say we raise a thousand dollars for the fund. That's a twenty thousand votes that can get rewarded.

Now, you take a sub, it can be any sub, the only criteria would be making sure the size of the sub and the normal amount of top posts balances out with the amount of rewarding you want to do.

What you do is decide a set period of time, like a week, and at the end of that week, the Votecash bot will look at the top posts in a subreddit and give out a nickel per vote to the users that posted them. It just keeps giving out nickels for votes until it's exhausted the thousand dollar fund.

For example, let's take the sub for my hometown, r/Vancouver. The top post for the last week as I write this got 5400 votes. That's 270 dollars reward. That's something that definitely people will go out of their way to check. The next highest is 2900 votes, for 145 dollars. It goes down to about the seventh highest post before the fund runs out, so the seventh person doesn't get the full amount for their post, which was at 2700 votes. The fund was short thirty dollars, so they got 105 dollars.

Note that the rewards are not given out one vote at a time. The Votecash bot would wait until a predetermined finish time, then look at the vote totals for the top posts, add up the total value to find the amount of BCH to send, and then make one transaction per post.

Also, the numbers could be adjusted so votes are worth a little less and more people get rewarded. It's all about finding the right balance of the most people receiving BCH without it being diluted so much that none of them care enough to claim it. I think, actually, the values I gave in the example above might be a little high. I think it would be ideal to dial in the numbers so that the most likely top post of the week would earn up to a maximum of about 100 dollars.

And, I'm not sure if Chaintip already does this, but it would be ideal to have a time limit so that unclaimed funds can be carried over into rewarding others who will claim it.

Think of all the benefits to tipping on other subs this way.

For one thing, it's hard for this to be gamed. Maybe someone smarter than me can figure out how, but, since all the votes are community driven, anyone posting low effort attempts to essentially just try and cash in will almost certainly not get upvoted. And if bots and trolls try and suppress this campaign, by downvoting posts all they do is ensure the cash is spread out to more people. Minimums and maximum payouts could also be implemented. Also note that all posts will be subject to the same moderation that happens on Reddit anyway.

For mods it's attractive, because for any sub that Votecash is pitched to, it encourages their members to post high quality content, and maybe draws in new members.

The idea would be pitched to various subs, by going to their moderators to get their approval, backing, and hopefully their help in promoting it. After all, they don't have to do anything to make it work other than the moderation they're already doing. No one has to do anything, even the people who win don't have to claim the money if they don't want it.

Also, instead of random individuals getting some amount of BCH they may or may not care about, the whole sub is informed of the potential to win, so that informs potentially thousands, or even millions of people at a time.

I'm envisioning this as something that happens in discrete campaigns, not an indefinitely ongoing thing. One week on one subreddit, and then another week on another. How frequently campaigns are run would be determined by funding and interest.

I think the first sub to try this out should be r/btc. Turn it into a place where votes have value on a regular basis. Imagine all the other crypto subs starting to wonder why their sub doesn't consistently reward them. It would also encourage high quality posts, which r/btc could use, just like every subreddit.

Then, when the idea is battle tested a bit, take it to other subs, just going one at a time, offering them BCH for just doing what they're doing.

Votecash, or whatever it's called, could take the potential of Chaintip and level it up into something that eventually all of Reddit might take note of.

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Avatar for dave_gutteridge
Written by   181
1 year ago
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Comments

I think i'm misunderstanding something somewhere. Aren't you just re-inventing the Moons from /r/cryptocurrency?

$ 0.00
10 months ago

Moons are a token with no set value relative to Reddit upvotes, which means they have a whole economy, and it's possible for Moons to increase in value. In turn, this means that Moons can be worth more than about 5¢ per upvote, which makes it economically viable to pay for upvotes and game the system.

The system being proposed here has been implemented, and it's been active on r/btc for months now. It only pays out a value equal to 1¢ per upvote, meaning it's just about never viable to pay for upvotes and profit.

$ 0.00
10 months ago

ah ok, thanks for clearing that up. | am reading up on the automod tool (boatbuilding) to see if I can be of help, but I'm afraid they haven't chosen intuitiveness and userfriendlyness as their guiding light in its creation.

$ 0.00
10 months ago

You should have used Nigerian naira in your illustration... Worst currency on planet Earth! Lol

$ 0.00
11 months ago

Great idea, that's essentially is the concept of use cases. If a coin has good use cases then it will be more useful than just spaculation. By the way nice example with 5he Moroccan Dirham.

$ 0.00
11 months ago

Oh interesting. I haven't been active on reddit but I did see they have some kind of coins there now.

I don't really like to have too many sites to focus on. Maybe I will just stick with noise and read for the meantime. Hehe.

$ 0.00
11 months ago

great idea, happy to support financially via flipstarter and/or startup

$ 0.01
11 months ago

Something like that ? https://gifts.bitcoin.com/faq/

$ 0.00
1 year ago

You don't seem to have read the article.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I read it, what you are planning is much more complex, but couldn't you have it simpler with Gifts? No bots, no automatisms. Everyone gives a gift when he wants. If his gift is not claimed after a set time, he gets the money back.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

If you've read the article, then you don't seem to have understood it.

In the first half I explain why individual tips are not effective.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

You also suggest individual tips, only automatically and with a higher amount. I don't know why that should be better. I am not really convinced by your idea.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I still don't think you understand the system. Who is tipped is determined by an algorithm that rewards specific criteria. You seem to have the impression that this is more random and less targeted than described in the article.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Great idea!

How much would you need to get someone to write the bot (at least a hsckjob) and launch a test balloon or 2?

I'm ready to commit 1k usd.

Please contact me on tg @moleccc

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Awesome! Thanks so much for your support of the idea!

As you can see in some of the other comments, we might have some people interested in doing the coding, and I'm willing to do the promotion and talking to other subreddits and so on, so maybe this can get going. I'll contact you on Telegram as well (please give me a little time, as I'm also dealing with some other tasks in life.)

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Awesome.

I'll contact you on Telegram as well (please give me a little time, as I'm also dealing with some other tasks in life.)

Sure

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I'm pretty sure this could be achieved by creating another reddit bot that uses chaintip to make the payouts. The fund can then be created by tipping this bot directly. Would it make sense to split the current pot over the top X posts in the week rather than have a fixed amount per vote?

I may be willing to code this up given part of your commitment... I'd just need to clarify the scope.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I personally prefer the idea of tying an amount to each vote, because that makes the criteria of payout more objective and inspires people to get the best content to squeeze out every last vote.

Also, please note that the numbers in the article are just examples. I think it would be critical that the bot be able to assign different values per vote for each campaign. Different subreddits with different sizes and different community considerations would require tailoring the right value per vote.

In ideal circumstances, this bot would have variable criteria so we could try different approaches and see which one gets the most positive response. The ability to set value per vote in one campaign, and reward per top X posts in another. I've learned that what I think is the best way and what the world thinks is the best way can sometimes be different ;) . Sometimes the only way to know is to test different systems.

If there are technical limitiations that constrain the options or make it more optimal to do it one way or the other, then I'm definitely open to making adjustments. I'd like to target the initial idea of value-per-vote, but you can let me know if that runs up against coding limitations.

$ 0.10
1 year ago

The concern is not technical, it's as @molecular says below, by assigning a fixed amount per vote you need to estimate how much will be voted to know how much of the fund it will eat. If you choose to split X between the top Y posts, then you can budget exactly how much will be given away (X) in a week that you run this.

My telegram is @T1b4nn3. Please contact me there when you have time and we can discuss specifics.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I think budgeting and estimating payouts isn't that hard. You can look at the average of top post scores in recent weeks to get a sense of the scale. And you also fix a total payout amount for each campaign, so there's no way that any kind of surge in voting could exploit the system. Depending on the algorithm, you could also set a max payout on each post, so if there is one post that deviates too much from the norm, then excess votes go to the next highest.

I think this can all be accounted for in a straightforward algorithm, which I'll work on.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I think Ihave reservations about the idea of spending the whole pot each week. Imagine a big donor coming along and doing a one-time big donation. You wouldn't want to spend that all in 1 week, right?

$ 0.00
1 year ago

The whole pool of available funds isn't used in entirety for each campaign. Every campaign would decide a predetermined total amount of payout, by looking at the size of the sub, the average number of votes for top posts, and what price per vote would create the most likelihood of positive response.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Ah, ok. I still like fixed amount per vote. Not sure why... predictability?

$ 0.00
1 year ago

63468711

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I think there's some confusion here. The awards are given relative to votes. How much available is determined on a per campaign basis.

For example, let's say there's a thousand dollars in the fund. We decide to run a campaign in r/example subreddit, and we allocate 100 dollars for that campaign. By looking at what the usual amounts are for top posts in that subreddit, we determine that votes should be worth 1 cent each.

Then, at the end of the week, we find the top post has 1200 votes. We give 12 dollars to the user who posted it. The second highest post for the week has 700 votes, so that poster gets seven dollars. And so on, down the list, until the 100 dollars runs out.

Then we take the 900 left in the fund, and start another campaign with the same process in another sub.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

By looking at what the usual amounts are for top posts in that subreddit, we determine that votes should be worth 1 cent each.

alternatively you can decide how many top users you want to reward, which removes the guesstimate work.

$ 0.00
11 months ago

Very nice dear.... Please tell me how isearning at read cash.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I am not much known about the features of reddit, although joined it few days ago. The idea of chaintip on the comment at any post is fantastic near me.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

It's not so much about people not bothering because of only getting cents with chaintip, but more about them getting familiar with the name Bitcoin Cash. I think there is some study or something that showed that a person has to see an ad 5-7 times before it having any effect, I think the same would go for Bitcoin Cash.

Someone might not bother the first time they hear about Bitcoin Cash, or the second, or third, but if the person is continually hearing about this Bitcoin Cash thing, eventually they'll want to find out what it's all about.

Anyway, VoteCash sounds good too, but wouldn't it be easily abused with fake votes by bots?

$ 0.00
User's avatar mh
1 year ago

Brand repetition is a thing, but I'm not sure that it's applicable to marketing Bitcoin Cash. Coca Cola is an end product, you either decide you want to try it or not. Bitcoin Cash is a means to an end, you don't just have it for it's own sake, you have it to buy other things. As such, I'm not sure if seeing it over and over creates a desire to possess it, since it's only a proxy for other possessions. But, it would probably take a study of it's own to know if that's true.

So far, I can't see any winning strategies for fake votes by bots. The amount of cost and effort to drive up a specific post in a subreddit would outweigh the rewards. Also, those bots would have to get by existing moderation policies in subreddits. And we haven't even begun discussing counter measures, such as winnings only being available to accounts subscribed over a certain period of time, and things like that.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

we haven't even begun discussing counter measures, such as winnings only being availa

or simply dont announce the chosen subreddit before the period is over.

$ 0.00
11 months ago

Coolest idea.... I know we cannot cash out on the Reddit coins but will we be able to cash out on BCH or will we just make Reddit richer?

$ 0.00
1 year ago

The bch is sent directly to the recipients. Reddit is not a middleman.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Thats great.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Sorry, I don't understand your question well enough to attempt an answer. Perhaps you could rephrase it?

$ 0.00
1 year ago

as i read it, "will you be tipping in a way that the user has custody over the funds, or are they in a Reddit wallet?"

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Funds go directly to user-controlled Bitcoin cash wallet. Check out how chaintip works. Reddit is not involved with the money transfer at all.

$ 0.05
1 year ago

yes i know. KJPR007 was asking the question, i was helping with phrasing for the author.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Yes, i know. Thanks for rephrasing. My answer was for the original question by kjpr007

$ 0.00
1 year ago

That's right.... Thanks

$ 0.01
1 year ago

Nice idea. What do you think of this reply? https://read.cash/@dave_gutteridge/how-to-turn-reddit-into-a-bitcoin-cash-marketing-machine-using-chaintip-697f42aa#comment-5213fbb7

I have my hands pretty full at the moment, but I don't think this would take too long to code up if the reddit API allows it - something I'd need to figure out.

How do you see the fund working? I think there might be no issue getting funding for top r/btc posts, but if it expands to a few more subs, do you think you'd get enough funding for this?

If I write the bot, are you happy to communicate with the mods of r/btc and the other subs to get it organised/working on those?

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I would love to help get this going if you were interested in helping code it! I know some of the mods at r/btc already, and I would be up for the task of talking to mods of different subreddits when the time comes.

One thing to note, I'm not envisioning this as an ongoing thing all the time. Maybe it could happen more frequently in r/btc, it would depend on funding. However, for other subs, I'm thinking it would be a promotion that happens one time for one subreddit, and then we move on and do it another time in another subreddit. And there's no requirement that says we have to do one right after the other, we can do it as often as funding and interest allows.

Ideally, the mods of a subreddit we get on board would say, "Hey everyone, this week the good folks over at r/btc are giving away Bitcoin Cash to this weeks top posts! This is a great time to post your best content!"

For funding, I might be able to initiate some funds from a few key people, and/or maybe do a Flipstarter, and other approaches. Thar's also a part of it that I'd be willing to do.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Sounds good. I have another idea (my own one in addition to doing this) which I'd be keen on getting your feedback on. Telegram me @T1b4nn3

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I'll be on touch on Telegram!

$ 0.00
1 year ago

i like this idea! some concerns:

tipping a small amount many times would make UTXO management challenging for the receiver. if you're trying to illustrate BCH's advantages, including low fees, it might be shocking to the receiver to handle all those coins.

you could figure out a lump sum payment scheme, but that seems more likely for abuse.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I first have to admit that there might be certain technical limitations that maybe I'm not aware of.

But, if I've understood your question correctly, the system I'm proposing would not have to make many small transactions. The bot would look at the top posts for the last week, calculate the total amount to be tipped to each individual, and make one transaction per post. In the example I give above, that would be a total of about ten transactions.

Also, this wouldn't be something run continuously. I'm imagining it as a promotion that moves around to different subs. One week it's in one sub, the next week in another, and it can take as much pause as needed between to raise funds and coordinate with moderators for when each promotion should take place.

Does that make sense?

$ 0.05
1 year ago

yes, that makes sense. when you wrote "give out a nickel per vote" i guess i saw it like the Random Rewarder upvote system, but that really doesn't make sense and i should've realized.

it looks like you're getting some traction! i'm excited to see where this goes! cheers!

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Glad it makes sense now. I think I might slightly edit the article to make this more clear to others as well.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

i think it's mostly a matter of its context on read.cash, with that robot lurking about and all, haha.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Well... that's an interesting concept, really, except there's actually something interesting when you, say, manually call upon Chaintip in a non-crypto sub and give out amounts of money higher than, say, 0.001 BCH.

Besides, if you want to make it a bot, the bot will get heavily overrun by people who will just make bots/multiple accounts to claim the "free money" and end up annoying the subreddit that wants to use it.

The fact that I managed to impress someone in r/WritingPrompts by offering a u/ChainTip (the author denied it, but I already sent the BCH) may mean something in your favor, but if it's a bot? I don't think the guy will like it at all. https://www.reddit.com/r/WritingPrompts/comments/lkqd0c/wp_when_the_mountain_sings_the_hero_comes_the/gnm9net/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

$ 0.00
1 year ago

For anyone to claim "free money", they would have to create a post that gets upvoted to the week's top posts for that sub. How exactly would someone pull that off without genuinely creating good content for that sub?

$ 0.00
1 year ago

That's essentially read.cash before the Random Rewarder bot replaced the dynamic points system.

Reddit can have vote manipulations, you know.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

You haven't actually explained how anyone would or could game the system I propose. If there are loopholes, I'd be genuinely interested to learn of them sooner than later.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Alright, well, the thing with your system relies on the fact that it's a bot on Reddit, and unverified accounts (no email accounts) can join any subreddit.

If this system relies on appearing on the front page, a user can simply create thousands of fake accounts and upvote his post.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Possibly. However, most subreddits and Reddit in general have existing counter measures in place to suppress bot activity, by, for example, restricting posts by anyone with under a certain karma or with too young an account. So, the person attempting this strategy would have to meaningfully participate in a sub well in advance of a Votecash campaign.

But, if we're worried about it, we can also cap win amounts on posts for any post that deviates too far from the median of top posts for that subreddit.

This system does not rely on anything appearing on the front page, so I'm not sure how to address that concern.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Well, while you said bots are posting, I said the bots will manipulate the karma of the post, raising it or lowering it without even touching the subreddit itself.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

For anyone to profit, they have to first make a post that can then be upvoted. So, even if they have an army of bots ready to upvote, if the post itself is inelligible, it doesn't matter how many upvotes it gets.

$ 0.00
1 year ago