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BTC vs BCH, a necessary war?

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Avatar for bittantis
Written by   8
1 year ago

When I started to be interested in the cryptocurrencies the divorce between Bitcoin Core and Bitcoin Cash was already a thing of the past.

Anyway, lurking on forums and Reddit, it was impossible not to breathe the consequences of this divorce: an incessant, sometimes veiled, often explicit and aggressive, claim about who is the real Bitcoin and about who has the right to exist.

I always stayed out of this kind of disputations, I never liked them, for many reasons. For example because I think it damages the curiosity of who approaches the crypto world for the first time. Confusion and confrontation scare, and this constitutes a barrier to the diffusion of the cryptocurrency among the common people.

Another reason is that I don't understand why instead of describing what is powerful, efficient, convenient, someone prefers to have enemies to hate, to degrade, to annihilate. Is this necessary? Does it help people to understand the correctness and superiority of an idea, of a position, of a technology? I don't think so.

But above all, I believe that after the fork, two coins with so much different personalities are born, coins that instead of being in competition are complementary, because the motivations of their existence are, or became, deeply opposite. I believe this so much that I think the success of one will help the destiny of the other, and vice versa.

Why do I think so? Because if I need to use, to send or to receive cryptocurrency my mind goes immediately to the best choice for this, Bitcoin Cash. And this choice has been selected by the experience and confirmed when I tried the Lightning Network, the solution proposed by the Bitcoin Core community for fast and cheap little payments, simply because this increases complexity, produces risks, causes troubles, for doing something that it's already very comfortable and easy to do when you use Bitcoin Cash.

On the contrary, Bitcoin is fine for who wants to hold, a kind of saving account, in the hope the value will increase year after year.

So the way I see it, Bitcoin Cash should continue to do what it does best: being the coin that constantly move, that reaches everyone, fast, risk-free and with low fees! the CASH inside the mobiles of the people that want to use digital money.

Bitcoin is another thing now, it's a coin that as soon as reaches a cold wallet stops to move, a piggy bank that the owners don't want to break. Should Bitcoin Cash desire to be this? It never wanted to be, so I hope not!

Bitcoin Cash lives in the wallets and in the purses, participating in the daily life of the common people.

Bitcoin Core sleeps in the darkness of the strongboxes, away from the daylight.

This is why I don't feel a war between them is reasonable: they are so different and this can be convenient for all, because in a opposite way they are both useful.

This is why I won't be a soldier.

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Avatar for bittantis
Written by   8
1 year ago
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Comments

Yes dear on social media is also comparing the btc with bch...top level competition..good article is written by you

$ 0.00
5 months ago

So, I believe BTC was captured and intentionally changed into something that no longer works towards fulfilling the real dream of Bitcoin. That's fine, but they lie and pretend they are still trying to be a real Bitcoin. They also have a massive social engineering effort going 24/7 to fool people into believing their lies. To do that they spread many small lies in a web of deceit.

One of the small lies you repeat here: that we can both exist side by side happily ever after. I know IT SOUNDS TRUE like many of their professionally crafted social engineering stories. The problem is if BCH succeeds in fulfilling the real dream of Bitcoin, BCH will grow so large and well used that BTC will seem small and useless in comparison. BCH will have most of the security hash rate and be useful as well as more valuable. BTC's price will fall and it will become a collectors item rather than a store of wealth (which it isn't, that's another obvious lie people do not see). They know this, so they are here doing their social engineering thing day in and day out. It turns out professionally implemented dishonesty works well if you keep it up long enough.

Most BCH fans probably do not mind the ongoing existence of BTC. For many it was our first crypto-love. That said, it is hard for many to forgive the new owners of BTC since they stole our love and corrupted him/her to achieve their dark intentions. There intentions seem to be to block the real dream of Bitcoin rather than the many other stories they tell.

I agree the divisiveness is bad for the community. I suppose I am finger-pointing and saying "it is them, not us"! Of course, I really think it is them. They have professionals post things like your article to make it look like it is us. Their tactics are quite effective and there is not much we can do. We must stand up to the dishonesty or things get worse. We hope they stop lying about BTC and BCH if they feel their position is so strong. Sadly, they know their position is weak and can only be kept up by lies and market manipulation.

$ 0.11
1 year ago

I see your point, but I want to clarify I have written my words without ulterior motives! If you think I belong to the "other side" I feel honestly discouraged, because it means I cannot hope to see an armistice: the motivations for fighting are evidently more deep-roated than I imagined.

Anyway, I downloaded, just now, the Bitcoin.com wallet. I see the wallet for BCH and the one for BTC. Together. I'm simple man and I like this. But probably, and I have written this somewhere, it's because I'm still quite naive.

$ 0.10
1 year ago

Thanks and yes, you could be well intentioned. I am not commenting on your motivations. I think I even agree with your goal of peace :-) Since many seem to be fooled into repeating the talking points provided by the professional social engineering firms, I point the possibility out regularly on many topics. Nothing personal.

Your post inspired me to write an article as well: https://read.cash/@Big-Bubbler/why-is-there-a-social-media-war-between-btc-and-bch-3ce54849

$ 0.10
1 year ago

Nice to know my post inspired one of yours. :0) I have just read it.

And so I want to say...

when you meet a person eager to use bitcoin, you will explain your knowledge, hoping him to be at your side in this war that you believe to be necessary, because only one coin must survive. Anyway, the people on the other side of the war, obviously, will do the same, creating new soldiers for them and new enemies for you.

But on the other hand, when I meet someone eager to use Bitcoin I'm positive, telling them what there is, trying to explain what can be useful for their purposes, asking anyway to accept everything and not to refuse anything. Not soldiers at all.

So there will be soldiers of BCH, without BTC. Soldiers of BTC, without BCH.

And then there are the common people, that own and know BCH and BTC without too many pretensions.

Now I ask, are you sure a big quantity of common people is not useful? Don't you think that having a lot of people experiencing both the sides will be the perfect ground to make prevail the best? We don't know the future, but sometimes progress arrives because people choose the things they need and not because these are enforced.

$ 0.10
1 year ago

I mostly just point out dishonesty and other attacks on the Bitcoin dream. I do not expect there to be only one coin used by the people. Claiming BCH fans think that and calling for it to be true for BTC is another dishonest attack vector common on the BTC side. I am here protecting people from lies and I do that so we can have a big community that is not fooled by the dishonesty. Pretending standing up to dishonesty is driving most people away is just another dishonest claim used to attack the teams working to fulfill Bitcoin dream. You may mean well but your making the same old false arguments mixed with truth and goals we all agree on.

$ 0.10
1 year ago

Nice Subscribe back

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Exactly, I feel the same way. But in my experience, the LN works great too. I'm not technical at all, I just downloaded a non custodial wallet, put some bitcoin on it, and spend some of it on bitrefill.com

$ 0.11
1 year ago

LN works great, but you cannot send Bitcoin to an LN address. They are completely different systems. You have to open an LN channel first (I call it convert BTC to LN Coin (1:1) and pay a BTC transaction fee for it). Only then can you see free transactions on the LN. Bitcoin Network and Lightning Network are separate networks connected by channels. If you are on the LN, you cannot send from your money to a Bitcoin address.

$ 0.01
1 year ago

There are several options for the LN. Yes, you can send on-chain bitcoin to a LN wallet and use it on the LN. again, YES, that is available today.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Sure, you can send on-chain Bitcoin to the on-chain address of the LN wallet. But you cannot send on-chain Bitcoin to LN address (using normal wallet as trust wallet or atomic wallet or exodus, or another). It's not possible. LN wallet has two addresses, normal on-chain address an LN address. If you want transfer on-chain Bitcoin to LN coin (and backwards), you have to pay fees. That's the problem.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

no, off-course, you cant do that on a non capable wallet. The wallet needs to be able to handle the transaction for you.

But that doesn't mean that is bad. or useless, or any amount of things that the people tell about the LN that are not true and very easy to check

$ 0.00
1 year ago

The LN address has a completely different form than the Bitcoin address. When I enter an LN address as the destination address in my atomic wallet, I get an invalid address message. It is the same with other wallets. I cannot send BTC to an LN address.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

LN works great too

non custodial wallet

It can't for many new users, as long as the tx rate on chain remains crippled.

$ 0.01
1 year ago

Today, you can download a wallet, which is a full node (non-custodial), and receive a LN payment in seconds, no configuration or any knowledge required. I suspect that you are severely misinformed.

$ 0.10
1 year ago

Nope, I am talking of Lightning non custodial wallets. Even if you can do many transactions per channel opening+closing, you still need on chain capacity for that, which is already exhausted with the max 4 tx/s transaction rate.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I don't have the technical understanding of how we will handle all the transaction in the world with the actual solutions available. I just use what we have today.

BTW, thank a lot for your tips, I really appreciate it.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I already tried Phoenix, not custodial, very light and easy, and I decided to keep some satoshi in it. Anyway, as I already wrote, LN works but we cannot deny it's in beta version, increases procedures to your financial behaviors, gives you some risk to lose money (in particular conditions but it can happen) and we don't know if it will become a standard. Time will teach us.

$ 0.10
1 year ago

all the crypto space is in beta. but yes, the LN still on early stages. but is usable today. just don't put much money on it if you don't trust the actual development.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

The problem is not that it is in beta, or anything else wallet specific or related to Lighning, it is that every user with a noncustodial wallet need to do two transactions on chain to get BTC into Lightning and back again. And the capped tx rate of 4/s is exhausted. A million new Ligtning users? Well that is a number of on chain transactions, to do that they have to push out others. We are talking 100 million users in the near future. That is impossible with Lightning and BTC with the capped 4/s tx rate. Impossible means it can't happen.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

But if onboarding new users mean just 1 transaction per user, and not hundreds of them (like using the blockchain for everything). this means that the LN is actually helping to handle the burden.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

But if onboarding new users mean just 1 transaction per user...

No. Not onboarding new users means a transaction. Opening a channel means a transaction. When the funds in your channel are exhausted, a new on-chain transaction must take place. This simply cannot work with a large amount of users. The on-chain transactions can be reduced somewhat, but they will always be needed. As usage increases, this will lead to the collapse of the system. There is no way out. The system is flawed in its design.

$ 0.10
1 year ago

I don't know whats your point of discussing something you haven't even tried (I can notice it from other comments).

So this conversation is not driving us to anywhere.

I will keep using both, (BTC/LN and BCH), I love to follow the latest innovations in both, that makes me happy.

Keep doing whatever gives you happiness in 2021! Happy new year guys!

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I will keep using both, (BTC/LN and BCH), I love to follow the latest innovations in both, that makes me happy.

It's good to follow the innovationrn and I don't want to stop you. You don't make me angry. I just recommend that you find out exactly what you are using and how it works technically. LN promises something it can't deliver. The simplicity of using LN is usually, if not always, sold by giving up control over the money. I strongly recommend that you check who you are entrusting your money to.

I wish you happy new year too 😄

$ 0.00
1 year ago

LN works, but for example, if you need to send some money to a friend that doesn't know so much digital money, it's a step more to do, a step that adds confusion, in my opinion. And, it still contains known risk factors, in some circumstances you could lose your money. And, it's not sure it will become a standard. it's a try, it works in some way, it could have a future. But now, not practical at all.

$ 0.11
1 year ago

Today, you can download a wallet, which is a full node (non-custodial), and receive a LN payment in seconds, no configuration or any knowledge required.

About losing funds, It didn't happens to me so far. I have huge amount of transactions so far (hundreds) no issues whatsoever.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Today, you can download a wallet, which is a full node (non-custodial), and receive a LN payment in seconds, no configuration or any knowledge required.

On the smartphone?

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Yes on the smartphone, breez wallet, super easy to use but you are a technical person, you can control your node.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

The wallet is in a very early stage of development. After installing it, I got a warning that I could lose my funds. You can't seriously recommend this wallet for use.

That is not a full node wallet, you can only connect your own full node. What normal user can do that?

A service provider is connected to this wallet and does a lot of things for you. I can also use PayPal. I would never use such a wallet.

https://breez.technology/technology.html

in-app swaps to and from on-chain wallets

Have you tried it? These swaps will probably cost you on-chain fees. Bitcoin and LN coin are technically different coins.

And what about routing problems? I send with BCH $0.01 and $1000 without problems from the same wallet without fees. Is that possible with LN?

No, no. LN is not easy to use at the moment. Maybe someday, when it works properly (which is not technically possible from my point of view), I will use it, but for now it is not for me and I cannot recommend it to anyone.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Having this warning is a good practice, you can lose funds on any blockchain at this point. there is plenty of complains of lost money on wallets on bch. And yes, you have a full node with breez, you just didn't notice.

Yes, I tried the swaps. like I said before, I had hundreds of transactions using breez, with friends, and some websites like yalls.com joltfun.com bitrefill.com and ln.pizza.

I never sent 1000$ but from 0 to 100$ is working fine.

If you don't trust breez for this "irresponsible" warning, try muun wallet. they also do the swaps for you but your money will be on the blockchain, they do the swap every time you pay on the LN.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

And yes, you have a full node with breez, you just didn't notice.

Come on, I'm not stupid. You can tell someone else fairy tales.

If you don't trust breez for this "irresponsible" warning, try muun wallet. they also do the swaps for you but your money will be on the blockchain, they do the swap every time you pay on the LN.

It is not the warning that is irresponsible. It is irresponsible of you to recommend me an experimental wallet.

The muun wallet has only +1000 downloads. It also seems to be something experimental. I don't own any BTC to try it out. But if you use the wallet, then you must be able to answer the question who opens the channels in the wallet and who sets the upper limits?

$ 0.00
1 year ago

Dude, my intentions are not to make you angry.

I never said you were stupid.

If you want to believe that the LN is not working, or it is nonfunctional or have whatever issue you want to believe, that is fine.

Happy new year, I wish you a wonderful 2021 for you and your family.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

I never wrote, in any place, that LN doesn't work. It works... but, considering the common people, I feel it increases a confusion we don't need. I mean, at the moment, I prefer to suggest to the people approaching cryptos to use BCH instead of letting them consider to add a LN app. And if we don't want to consider BCH I could suggest Nano, for example.

Anyway, in front of simple people that want to discover cryptos, would you ask them to have a wallet with BTC... and then another wallet - with different technology, different keys - for using their money? I really think this would discourage them.
I could be wrong but I'm pretty skeptical.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

What I'm trying to say, is that you can use BCH, I',m not against it, it works, I have some.

I also like nano, I don't have any but I tested it.

I have being using the LN, it also works, its fine, you can download a non-custodial wallet, (or custodial if you like), use it to buy steam games, or any kind of gift card, pizzas, or play the roulette online or whatever. it is working, I showed a friend who have some bitcoins from an old wallet, he is now spending his bitcoins with the LN, he didn't need to create or configure anything, he just send his bitcoin to a mobile wallet and started spending them with the LN.

I don't understand why some people are against that, It doesn't make any sense.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

About me I want to clarify: I said I prefer to suggest something that works without problem and, for now, to avoid to suggest something that is an attempt to solve BTC disadvantages , because this solution is still in beta version, has known risk factors and adds complications.

This is not to be against... it's to prefer(now) something that already exists to something that is still work in progress. In the future we will see...

$ 0.00
1 year ago

About me I want to clarify: the LN is working just fine.

Our opinions are not going to change that fact.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

You like LN very much, which is the problem? I don't have any ;0)

Let's take easy, I never tried to put your opinion in a corner, simply I think differently, with no need to say I'm misinformed.

They are just opinions.

Edit: anyway there are disclaimers for using LN, reading your words it seems this technology is already completed. It is not.

$ 0.00
1 year ago

hahaha yes, just opinions, to be honest I don't care who wins this "battle", the sad part is see people telling bad things to each others.

I can use Bitcoin cash anytime if it take over the world.

and no, the LN is not completed, but...

it is bitcoin cash completed?

$ 0.00
1 year ago

This is why I won't be a soldier.

The reality sets in with new interest, so it will fix itself, and ... everybody do not need to take on the war, so you are ok.

Still, there is a war, a war of propaganda, lies, and censorship, so countering that can speed up the process.

$ 0.20
1 year ago

In a certain way, I know to be too naive. My position, probably too peaceful, is obviously a reaction of the lies, censorship and propaganda you are talking about. It's sad to see enemies where you would like to have allies. I hope, deciding not to be a soldier, I won't discover one day to have been a coward. It can be.

P.S. Thank you for your generous tips, not deserved ;0)

$ 0.10
1 year ago

It's cool

$ 0.00
1 year ago