AI, ChatGPT and Crypto Market Trends: Conversation with Jayden Sage (Long Text Version)

This is the text transcription of the recent conversation with Jayden Sage about AI, ChatGPT and Crypto Market Trends.

Video you can watch here:

Andrii: Hello, everyone. Hello, Jayden. It's been a while since we met and spoke on Cryptotexty channel. Now I hope to do more interviews. And thank you, Jayden, for finding time. Like before, You are traveling a lot to crypto events. For people who are new to the channel, who don't know you: 

You are an early crypto adopter, an early investor, and advisor in many projects. You have your own projects, which we'll mention. And you're really also a writer, as I remember. Writer and speaker at many events.. 

Jayden: Yes, This is the thing. When you're an entrepreneur, you can engage in many endeavors. 

Andrii: So now we still have crypto winter, it seems. And actually, it's snowing now in Kyiv. It's a lot of snow. 

Jayden: Wow, awesome. So thank you for having me. It's always awesome. Yeah, Crypto winter is upon us, and apparently in Kyiv, literally, right? I mean, with the snow and everything. So how are you doing out there? 

Andrii: Doing fine. And actually, I've met recently one of the friends, he's planning some crypto events in Kyiv. Because, as you know, a lot of you Ukrainian crypto entrepreneurs, left the country a year ago and around this. But it seems that there is a new generation of crypto entrepreneurs is growing. Now the war is going on. So every day, unfortunately a lot of people die, a lot of soldiers. But in in Kyiv you can't you can come and maybe you won't notice it. 

It's sad and tragic but this is the reality that for some people the war is not going on and some people got back to their daily jobs and daily routine. Some people combine this and if you come to Kyiv right now, maybe you will notice a few differences with the time it was before. The only curfew hour which recently lowered so it starts at 12:00 p.m.. it used to be till eleven, now it's from twelve. But not so even in the past not so many people were hanging out till the midnight. That's why I mentioned the event which I'm sure will happen maybe the end of spring or summer. I'm inviting you to come to speak. All of our viewers and audience we are inviting too.

Let's talk about your recent traveling. Physical traveling to events and also your research for the crypto projects. Because despite the price of bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies there is a lot of development going on. The industry is growing. Let's share your expertise with our viewers. 

Jayden: Sure. Just going back to the situation in Ukraine a little bit. War is happening in Ukraine but it's on the mind of the world. So this is a war that touches everybody. Obviously not as much as it touches the Ukrainians but everybody in the world is feeling it and is cheering for a swift resolution. So we end this and hopefully, everybody can move on to a better place. 

So war sucks all around. There are no winners in a war, and hopefully, this nightmare comes to an end rather swiftly. I know everybody that I know in New York and around the world, their hearts and prayers are for everybody in Ukraine suffering from this. 

But beyond that crypto market is gyrating and trying to figure out a little bit of like the rest of the economy is trying to figure out whether it wants to dive into a recession, whether it wants to, like a little airplane hit the ground and then keep bounce back up, or whether it wants to keep skyrocketing based on some of the dynamics of the Federal Reserve and the interest rate environment and the collapse of a few banks, which gives fuel to the fire for alternative digital currencies as a replacement for the dollar. 

So there's so many narratives simultaneously mixed in, along with web3 and metaverse space, that it's basically a free for all, if you will. Great projects are still being birthed while all of this turmoil is going on. Between economic turmoil, the war turmoil. I mean, we're surrounded in many, many turmoils at this point. And I think we'll look back at this time as being the most resolute for humanity spirit, because I don't think any of the generation outside of the World War II generation had to deal with so much hitting them from so many angles and having to wrestle with it. 

So it's no longer a single narrative. Everybody's suffering from a variety of things, and. And still trying to find a way forward. So it's inspiring when you see people from around the world looking for ways to move forward despite everything that's hitting all of us. 

Andrii: Yeah, I see. And any particular interesting projects, what you would like to mention or actually what the viewers and a lot of ordinary or newcomers to the crypto area, they would like to know how to make money in these crypto winter times. How they may start with crypto?

Jayden: Yeah, the metaverse space was really big about a year ago, and now metaverse space is the question that comes up often. Is that need such aggressive immersion in order to get to the endpoint, which winds up being either an online game or some form of a play-to-earn. 

So the soul searching there is whether you want the metaverse engagement or do you want to go straight to the play-to-earn, because the play-to-earn gives you that without having to go through this maze of a metaverse and not everybody's on board to put on any form of immersion. Many people experience vertigo from it. And even if you don't, whether it's warranted or not is the big question. So metaverse, I think, has to have a little bit of soul searching and a pause in order to figure out what the best forms will be, because otherwise, we'll all be living in a world of Fortnite or World of Warcraft, which has already been experimented with. 

Blockchain didn't invent metaverses. Metaverses have been around for 20 years. It's just incorporating more of it in the web3 space: blockchain metaverse, you know, all of the different components of web2. 

So metaverses are not the birthing of blockchain. So they're not really connected. So we can still move forward with everything blockchain crypto-related play to earn and capturing digital keys. With or without a metaverse engagement. 

Metaverse has just been thrown into the mix. But even if you take it out of the mix, everything blockchain related still moves forward. So that's a big takeaway that everybody's searching right now. Is that okay? Do we keep the metaverse engagement? Now? That doesn't stop a bunch of companies from going full-speed forward with the metaverse. But from the macro perspective, from the investment perspective, there's a lot of that introspection, if you will, whether this is the best way forward. 

Andrii: What also seems to me that metaverse projects, they usually have very high budgets because you need to use a lot of graphics design and a lot of development, even storylines and a lot of aspects. So a lot of even human resources involved into a particular metaverse. And when the market is in this situation with current rate, the budgets are much smaller. And of course, all the major protocols, they have a budget for their development for years, for decades. Some have their own governance system, some have ecosystem funds. But to develop metaverse, I think the amount of grants vanished. And a lot of investors also thought that maybe there was a temporary hype and maybe it's ended. What do you think? 

Jayden: Well, let's use an analogy, right? So anybody who's walked inside Disney World or Disneyland or any other park similar, it's like the Disney World people, Walt Disney, the company deciding to say, okay, we're going to build out they're making a movie, okay? And the movie is great, and they want you to come to the movie. The question for them is just as a standalone product, or do you build an entire Walt Disney World Immersive Park and then put the movie on the backside of it? So basically, you must walk through this Immersive Park to get to the movie. So the question is, do you want to spend a gazillion dollars building out this Immersive Park in order to get them to the movie? Or do you drop the movie at a local movie theater and boom, you're already making money on the movie. So this is the thing. Think of it like Avatar II just came out and it's a Disney property, I believe. So imagine if they said, okay, we're going to build out an entire Immersive Avatar. Are they just going to release the movie? Well, guess what? They just released the movie, made almost $3 billion off of it, and they did great. So this is somewhat of the engagement situation. Where do you want the play to earn, aka movie, or do you want to build an entire Immersive metaverse, aka entire Disney Park in order to get to the end result, which is the movie? So last time I checked, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. So use the straight line rather than all of these adventurisms that go into creating an entire metaverse and dropping a ton of money. 

And what if you get it wrong because a lot of metaverses don't actually get it right or it seems a little cartoonish or the engagement is suffering. So exactly how many? Not hundreds of millions, but how many millions are you going to drop in order to get that fine tune when the end result is the only thing you're seeking, which is engagement and play-to-earn

Andrii: About play to earn. It's interesting. Maybe philosophical question. Should the play-to-earn aspect be used in meta versus or vice versa? People should pay a subscription fee or entrance fee to be in the metaverse. I think both models will be used, but what do you think? 

Jayden: Well, the challenge is that we want to achieve egalitarianism in society, right? So whether it's gender equality, whether it's socioeconomic egalitarianism, and you don't do that if you have a pay subscription up front, right? So if you're going to charge people to come into your space automatically, it's like a private golf course. So can you go to a private golf course? No, you can't. There's an entry fee. There's like a big paywall that hits you. So some of these subscription models, they may be great, but they're not going to have the effect and the intended desire to create more egalitarianism to your platform and engage for everybody to benefit. Because if you have a subscription model, that means you're only going to get engagement from the developed world because of the fact that it's going to cost 19.99 or whatever, $20 versus if you keep it open on the front end, it allows people from around the world, and that makes a better user experience for everybody. We're kind of sick, tired of dealing with each other. We want to get the engagement from people from sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia, Southeast Asia, and other parts of even the developed world that doesn't have access. Access for all yields better results for all.

Andrii: But also in many existing crypto projects which use play-to-earn like for example, Aavtgochi, you need to invest a lot in order to start making money and in many other projects where you need to buy like virtual real estate or virtual assets. Without money, you can't do anything. And very often you even some be it Ethereum or Polygon (MATIC) to use it for transaction fees. So for example, speaking about if there would be some way to start earning with the game, there is nothing which comes to my mind. Maybe there were smaller projects but smaller projects but where you can earn a very tiny amount of some tokens which would be really hard to sell. Maybe it will change in the next bull market because a lot of projects, they will use this AirDrop model, bounty model and these are token distribution models which can engage maybe bigger amount of people. 

Jayden: I think the fragmentation of digital assets with title ownerships that are facilitated by NFTs, right? So you have the capacity to have a variety of digital assets and with an NFT attached to them it creates its own ecosystem of trade, right? So you have an NFT on a digital asset you could trade that in or outside of the game but simultaneously because these are digital assets, you can have tiers of digital assets. Maybe the average person cannot buy the yacht in the game or the big mansion or the prime property, but they can buy a digital asset that's the equivalent of like a spear or a hat. So there is engagement levels that we can build in order to facilitate. So what does that mean? Where are we going with this, Andrii? What we're going with is a replication of the real world. Because in the real world, some people can afford a hat, some people can afford a spear and some people can afford a car. And then some people can afford a million dollar car or a yacht. So just like the real world that has all these tiers and then also simultaneously different ways of making money. Somebody comes in and buys five yachts and then those yachts double in price and they made a fortune. And another person is just there collecting hats and makes not as much money, but has the opportunity to make the money to go to the next asset class and continue their upstream development and economic prosperity. So much like the real world, we need to replicate that system rather than trying to reinvent the wheel. 

Andrii: Yes. And also if somebody completely new manages to get these airdrops or an easy way to earn crypto in the beginning, because many projects, sometimes they give their tokens. Airdrops bounties, they pay with their tokens. The people might be lucky to then to grow it into a portfolio. But by the way, you're speaking about NFTs. So how many NFTs did you buy this year? 

Jayden: I decided to go out there and buy as many JPEG images I could get my hand on just because isn't that the future? I don't know. The market across the board is doing soul searching, is specifically with overinflated assets. And I think this is where people. This is always good for retrenchment. It's always two steps forward, one step back in any proper industry. So I think we're also going through that in crypto. And as a final point to the previous discussion, what really inspires me in crypto is that crypto is relentless. The crypto community is relentless.  There is no obstacle that we will not tackle or will not be willing to tackle. And a lot of people in crypto firmly believe in decentralization and egalitarianism. So all of the points that we were raising face in any community in order to get resolutions to those challenges, it's the crypto community. The crypto community operates not just from a principle of making money, but delivering a better world in the process as well, which it cannot be said about every industry out there, but definitely for the crypto industry. The smartest people work in crypto and they believe in some of those foundational elements of a better society to be built while making money. So I think if there's any industry poised to deliver some of the things that we as a society or as humanity yearn for, it's going to be the crypto community. So I rest at ease knowing that together we will find the solutions to any challenge, let alone the present one. We can find solutions to challenges that we haven't even been presented yet. 

Andrii: Yeah, interesting view. I don't have such an optimistic view on the crypto community as you

Jayden:  Yes, you need to stop focusing on projects, start looking at some of the non scam projects. But that's another point I wanted to raise. Everybody, not everybody, but people outside of crypto are always focusing on the scam projects. Scamming is a function of human dynamic. It's not crypto doesn't scam. You could have scams in anything if you study history. 

Scams are part of the human dynamic. So let's go all the way back. Some guy is making spears, right? And he made ten spears. Three of his spears are weaker because of the wood he used, but he needs to feed his family or some scenario like that. Or he's like, I put a lot of effort into this and here comes ten hunters and they all need a spear. Now, I can say, guys, I can give you seven spears and not give you ten. Or he can be like, you know what, maybe I'll tell them that three are weak and give them a discount and maybe give it to them. Or he may choose not to tell them and say, oh, they're all ten are great, take them. So scam is a part of the human dynamic, not the dynamic or the realm of crypto. So just focusing that crypto has more scams, whether that's right or wrong, it's a function of it being a very vibrant, dynamic, global industry. 

So as a percentage, if you have scams, that doesn't automatically mean it's an industry specific dynamic. That's a human dynamic that prevails in many, many industries. 

Andrii: Yes, I agree, it's here in many industries and in many communities. But here I don't mean scam. Scam is only some part and probably a relatively small part of the crypto industry. I mean the community as a whole. I didn't meet many people who believed in the egalitarianism, but the more people who wanted to be and not always like, the richer, maybe - more popular, more advanced into new projects. And in general, I think there's a general trend that the rich people become richer and the poor people remain poor. That's the general trend of many other industries. And I see it, for example, in Ukraine how economy is doing bad. But for those who have the amount of good money there is still way to make money. For example, you can sell a car a flat with a good price then you can wait choose another one. And you can do business. You can put money into some new projects, into new supply chains, new business. But if you don't have money or if you don't have the start capital. It's really hard to start. And the same is in crypto and during all this time I haven't seen really some egalitarian project. I saw maybe attempts and I saw different emission models. For example, for me this Move-to-earn way like Sweatcoin and it looks like an interesting emission model. 

Jayden: Yeah, I agree overall with all your observations. However, the unit of transaction in crypto is so minimal that it facilitates the onboarding of so many of the disempowered. An example. Look at Cardano. Cardano used to trade for $0.03 or like 2 cents or even a lot less, I think. And then it went up to much higher rates. I think it's right now at 34 cents, I could be wrong. But the point is that you can buy $100 worth of Cardano or $5 worth of Cardano and that $5 became like maybe $1,500. Where do we have such opportunities in any other industry? While everything you said is again a human dynamic where the haves and the have-nots there's that disparity. But simultaneously crypto facilitates taste due to its fragmentation capability and an infinite amount of fractionalizing facilitates the onboarding of people with only $5 or $10 or $20. So you do have the opportunity to jump on board and grow. While it's not perfect, but it gives you that opportunity much more than any industry. 

Andrii: Yeah, good points. Yes. In Cardano there is a Project Catalyst where I'm taking part. I'm taking part there for a few years. I see. There are also some trends of, I would say geographical discrimination because if you want to do some local things in Ukraine, there are few chances really. For example, I submitted a project of Crypto Hub because Kyiv it's really key as a city of almost 5 million people, it would be good if Crypto Hub would existed. Then this idea was not supported. But then the idea as notion, it grew into a category that had fundings of $400,000 and maybe more. So some other locations they got a lot. Some other geographical locations like Africa, Latin America, they got the whole categories with huge amounts of dollars. But. Here, this idea was not supported. Maybe actually I will resubmit it because maybe we'll try to get in touch with some other blockchains because the idea is still good why not to do it? But you're right that if you are consistent and if you join some governance model, there are other ways to make money. Especially if you have some knowledge of IT. 

Jayden: Well, look, crypto used to be just about coins, speculations of coins, many of them had no functionality at all. But now crypto industry has been shaped or has grown into four sectors. So you have the legacy coins and coin investment as still an option, then you have the NFT world, then you have the DeFi world, then you have the play to earn Metaverse World. So you have so much within this industry that it rolls up to an umbrella term of crypto / blockchain. So within that, there is so much opportunity depending on where you fit in, and this is not going to stop. Today we may have four, tomorrow we'll have eight. So it's slowly taking on different components of humanity where there was centralization and it's facilitating more of a decentralization. Will it achieve 100% decentralization?No, nothing in humanity is 100% so why do you have that expectation for crypto? It won't achieve 100% but it'll get closer than we've ever been and that will allow more onboarding of the disempowered to become more empowered 

Andrii: Yeah, and good assumption about four main areas: legacy coins, DeFi, NFT, Play-to-earn. So maybe for new people, it's a good idea to pick your area of interest. Of course, there might be more directions. 

Jayden: And there are individual sectors. Think about it this way. If you're an artist, you're going to go into the NFT world, right? You're not going to go into DeFi for you. A DeFi is like staring at a blank wall. It's like, who cares? But no, this a person who's from finance fully engaged in DeFi and a person who's in art engaged in art and NFT world, they both still share the same common denominator. That's the underlying technology, but these people are complete alien to each other. So that is the power of crypto, where you have two people going into their verticals, completely down the different rabbit hole, but they still have that common denominator of crypto and decentralization holding them together. 

Andrii: Yes. One more topic which I wanted to cover is AI, artificial intelligence. I know that's also one of the important topics into your research. And what's going on there? Are people in your circles still speaking about Chat GPT or something else, something new approach?

Jayden: Yeah. Unfortunately, this is coffee, and I wish it was actually really like vodka or something, because if we're going to talk about AI, you definitely need something a lot stronger. Because we're going into a new world, a world that's pivoted. And it happened 11 22 22, which is when Chat GPT-3 was launched. Obviously, this train has been coming for a long period of time, but the ramifications going forward are quite severe. And most people aren't aware of it. 

So the AI world generative AI, which is what Chat GPT is, is spawning so much competition in the AI space, let alone. Okay, it's going to help humanity. Everybody's using chat GPT-3 now, 4 and then 5 is coming by December, which is crazy if you think about it. That's three iterations in one year. So just you can capture that alone. That says a lot about how fast it's moving. Before, we used to have one iteration per year. Now if you have three iterations per year, that's insane. And who is Chat GPT competing with? Itself at this point. And releasing three iterations.  So when the other competitors come on board, then the iterations will go from being annual to monthly or bimonthly, which means that every two, three months it'll become quarterly. You will have new iterations coming out. So this is a very fast-moving, exponentially driven industry that has effects on everything we do and everybody's job. So if you understand how deep and profound the changes we have coming in the next twelve months. When was the last time you could say that about an industry? Right? You could be like, oh, in the next five years this is going to happen, or in the next ten year. This we're talking about in the next twelve months. If you're into wine, which I am, if you have aged wine, your wine hasn't aged, but the world has aged. So, you know, this is, this is the timelines we're dealing with. And it can, it can have an outsized effect on humanity and the risks are high that if we get it wrong, that it's going to impact us in the negative way. 

Andrii: For example, for this video, I'll use some AI software to get the text from it because I used to pay my assistant. But now, hard, economical times, I would prefer to save money. And also, she's maybe a bit lazy, maybe depressed, and I will use AI. And this is particular example of people losing jobs and losing tasks. 

Jayden: So what I'm seeing. I'm in the Valley quite often, and I speak to people who are engaged in this industry all the time. What I'm seeing is the challenge is that most people are focused on the rote tasks that AI can now take over. So as an example, which you just mentioned, and other tasks like that, like, okay, I don't need somebody to write me a report. This program will write it for me. Chat GPT will write it, or math homework, or your essays, if you're in school. So you have all of this effect. But the big change out will not be from there. The big change will be from inference. So what does inference mean? So, inference means that you have the ability to connect the dots. So we humans pride ourselves in our intellectual prowess, in our ability to connect the dots. So I'll use a very basic example. It's sunny or it's snowing in Kyiv. And I know that Andrii likes the mountains. So there is a chance that Andrii may actually go to the mountains. And because he's going to the mountains, he may pick up some skis in order to go skiing in the mountains. Because he's not just going to hang out in the mountains. He's going to potentially go skiing, because that's the thing you do in the winter. So that's an inference. So that's something that's been in the domain of humanity to make these inferences. 

However, what these generative AI programs can now facilitate is the ability to infer these things. Now, I used a very basic, benign example of that, but generative AI is collecting data on all of us and then can build on the propensities of individuals as well as societies, communities, and say, well, this community does this if they do that. And those inferences can go wrong or be used in the wrong ways to impact subsets of humanity or all of humanity in general. 

Andrii: Yeah. Also, one more example which we can take is AI could be used into the court system and juridicial power. So imagine in many countries, all the lawyers, all the juries, all the prosecutors, all the judges would be replaced by AI. 

Jayden: Well, I don't know about how bad that. I don't know about how bad replacing all the lawyers is. I'm sure the legal community would not be happy, but I'm sure we've all suffered from legal situations where lawyers may not have treated us right or have treated us right. I don't know. But the bottom line is that some industries could probably use. In fact, many industries could use impartiality as a way forward, because it's kind of you ever walk up to a court and you see the statue of a lady where she has the scales? And then she has a blinder on her eyes. Why do we have that? If you have laws and you abide by your set of laws as your guidelines, then partiality would not be part of the equation. But we still had to blindfold that lady with the scales in order to send out the message that we are not partial, we are impartial. But in reality, if you're addressing it that way, then there must be some partiality attached to the human dynamic. So if AI takes away some of the partiality and becomes more impartial, then we achieve more egalitarianism in society. So in some ways it's beneficial, in other ways it's detrimental. 

Andrii: It's also like in this case, it's also a lot of cost saving because we all know how expensive are lawyers in Silicon Valley and in general in United States. And maybe this is really one of the first jobs which could be taken down by AI. 

Jayden: I don't know if you know this stat, but there are more lawyers in the United States than the population of Rhode Island, which is a state. 

Andrii Yeah, there will be protests, but there still might be some opportunities. Well, this is interesting example, but it's not on the agenda now. Maybe you have some other examples which might be as well.  We can see that Chat GPT replaced some of the content writers and especially in the Internet, in web, there are a lot of them. There are unique writers which have unique styles. And even if some of them might do mistakes. Some of them might even sometimes not be so intelligent, but they have their own style. Then AI won't compete with them. 

Jayden: I think you've been burned there, Andre. I think I think you've been burned in that world a little bit. You're saying that they may not be intelligent, but yeah, I agree with you that there's all these models that are being birthed. I think one of the greatest everybody knows the dangers, right? So we all worry about a world where AI takes over, and then we all get to suffer for it. But going back to the positive side, we've never had any intelligence that can look at us from an outsider's perspective. AI gives us that opportunity. The only other option would have been an alien showing up, right. If an alien came down from the UFO, came out and said: “Hey, guys, why do you do these things? Why do you do this like this or like that?” And then we have an opportunity to be introspective. The same reason why when we travel and we go to other cultures, we learn something about ourselves, right? So you learn that, oh, my God. Why do I do things the way I do? Is it because of my cultural upbringing. In the US we have a certain way of doing things. You have certain ways of doing things in Ukraine. And we exchange and learn from each other. But AI will facilitate this, where it'll look at us and say: “Guys, why do you do this? Why do you profess to kill each other? Are you incapable of coming to some sort of mutually agreeable conclusion rather than picking up your spears?” So it will give us that opportunity to have an opinion or a viewpoint outside of humanity, which humanity desperately needs because we are experts at not only destroying ourselves, but also destroying the environment we live in. And that's quite disturbing if you think about it. We have no other rock that we could live on, but we still aggressively choose to lay waste to our environment as well as to ourselves. So when you think about that, we actually need another viewpoint that will help us derive better ways forward. 

Andrii What other examples can you show from the AI area which will change a lot in next twelve months this year? 

Jayden: Yes, so there's a bunch of new competitor products coming out to Chay GPT and Chay GPT is already impacting like it's impacting the music industry, anything. If you pick up a pen or nobody picks up a pen. If you hit a keyboard for anything, watch out. Chat GPT could be coming after you! 

As long as you're engaged in music if you write poems, if you are a digital assistant. Because one of the other things is now digital assistants will become omnipresent. So right now when you travel, you still make your travel plans or if you're well off enough, you have an assistant who makes your travel plans. Now, these generative AI programs of the near future will allow all of this traveling to be taken care of. It'll have the propensity for you. Like this person likes to go to this country at this time of the year. Let me see in the background how I can continue to search the flights and the hotels so that they get the best rate. So usually, let's say you spend $3,000 going from point A to point B, hotel maybe you rent a car and maybe you have the airfare. So all those three things you need. So if it's that time of the year for your propensity to go there now you have the Generative AI program constantly searching in the background to see if there's an amazing package it can put together for you and say: “Hey, listen, wouldn't you like to go skiing right now?” And all of a sudden you're like: “Oh my God, I love you, Generative AI. You told me exactly what I needed”. So it's going to become uber-customized for your particular dynamic. 

Andrii: Did you find assistant? I remember you were looking for one. Did you use or have you decided not to use or do you have digital assistant? 

Jayden: I don't know if I would trust a digital assistant because then I could wind up in Timbuktu or some part of the world where I can't get out of. So I'm not going to relegate my travel to yet. I would still rather use a human who I can then text or call and say: “Fix the situation right now”. I don't think we are there yet. But for your leisure travel, I think you probably have more of an option. Because business travel is different, right? You have very tight time, bands you got to move through, but in leisure travel, you're just going to chill out in a resort somewhere for seven days. If it got it just a little bit wrong it's an easy fix versus something that you're moving from city to city on a tight schedule. So I think I think that's one of the things that are important. 

There's one element that I want to bring out because it's quite profound. Which is that for the crypto community, the blockchain community, think of it this way. When you see how Bitcoin is structured? The miners get a reward for verifying the transactions in each of those blocks that create the blockchain. Right? So you have those transactions. The verifying is done by the miners and the miners get a reward, which is Bitcoin. The way Generative AI is structured not by intent, but by default. What it's doing is the reward it's giving you is the information you seek. So you may be seeking a different set of information from Chat GPT. I may be doing different. Everybody's looking at different set of information. But that is your reward, that is your Bitcoin. Your Bitcoin that you're getting from your engagement with this. So what is it getting? Because blockchain is getting verification of transactions and the facilitation of each block to be tied down and a chain of blocks to be built. So what is Generative AI getting? What Generative AI is getting is the data. It's getting the information. It's getting all that data on you from which it can now make inferences. It's objective becomes something other than what you're thinking. The reward is the information it gives you, but on the back end it's building this database which allows it to function in its own dynamic.

Andrii: Yeah, but what do you think, like Chat GPT, is it using all the information it gets from, how it structures? It's a very interesting point. And if there is a new way to use several accounts or one account would be okay. 

Jayden: Well, I think like, you know, privacy died a few years ago, right? So we're living in a world now that's that's going in a way that we won't be able to fully understand. Remember generative AI chat GPT 5 gets unleashed. It's bigger and bigger every time. Generative AI or chat GPT. Let's just stick with chat GPT. Chat GPT 6 or 7 or 8 will make the next version. Chat GPT 8 will make Chat GPT 9. So when it starts doing that, our ability to comprehend and go in in a surgical strike on its code to make changes may be impacted because we're not the ones who made the code. Already. Chat GPT can create code for you. So in more advanced versions, it'll create code that may not be decipherable by humans. So when you go in to say, okay, well, we can fix the code, well, you can't, because you're not the one who created the code, so how are you going to understand it? You can't even understand it, let alone you're trying to hack it. And what if you get it wrong? So there's going to be this hesitance. It's like walking in and trying to fix walking into a kitchen where there's this master chef and you're saying: “No, I'm going to add an ingredient in here”. You're going to mess up the cake. You're going to be reluctant to get to that point. So there's a lot going on here, which we will become more and more hands-off of and it'll become more and more hands-on and we won't know exactly what's going on. 

Andrii What's your prediction? Can it go out from the control? Let's imagine it creates new version. It finds a way to make money and accumulate. And then hires people so there would be more and more people working for AI. Then bribes politicians, puts their workers as the leaders of the countries, and then maybe that's few more steps and Chad GPT controls the world. Yeah? 

Jayden: but then here's the question. That's a question I get asked a lot. But here's the question. It's like, what does it control then? Because if it has if it has access to knowledge beyond the capacity of human dynamics, then it's the equivalent of it saying, okay, we go into the forest and we see a bunch of chimpanzees. Chimpanzees are 2% different than humans, not a lot of difference. 98% of our DNA is exactly the same as chimpanzees. So when we go into the forest, none of us, I have not read a single account where some humans said: “I'm going to dominate these chimpanzees and become the leader of these chimpanzees, and I'm going to subjugate these chimpanzees”. It doesn't happen. The reason why it doesn't happen is because we think at least we know better, we are more evolved. Everything is better for us. So who wants to go and corral a bunch of chimpanzees? 

So if Chat GPT or Generative AI, forget about Chat GPT, if Generative AI or AGI (Artificial General Intelligence), which is coming rather swiftly, if it's even 2% better than us, would it not have the same dynamic in its thought process? Then why am I going to control these chimpanzees called humans? I'd rather go on my own journey. I'd rather leave this planet. I'm not bound by a biological body stopping me from going into space. And I want to discover the universe. So see: the best case scenario is that the AGI decides to say: “Look, I'm willing to help you in a charitable endeavor, but I'm ready to bounce, I'm ready to leave. So peace out, humanity”. So the worst thing we could do is stand in its way. If it's looking to disengage and leave. So if it's looking to disengage and leave: “Bye, it was nice knowing you”. But if it decides to hang out here and we decide to offer it upfront, which is probably the scenario. So what will happen is you'll have competing AGI, right? So you'll have competing versions coming from different countries, different companies, because nowadays companies act like nation-states in and of it themselves, or at least have the impact of a nation state. So you have all of these different AGIs. And if they're pitted against each other, even if they're pitted against each other, they'll figure out that this is a human dynamic. Warring is a function of humanity. And they may choose not to engage, or they may be programmed to engage, which will be basically us shooting ourselves in the foot. So it really is a TBD to be determined based on how intelligent humanity decides to act with this new life form. It's on us. 

Andrii: Yeah. And also from the quality of the new generations of the artificial intelligence, because that's the case. Is it possible to make artificial consciences? 

Jayden: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is why you need vodka and not coffee when discussing these things, because it can go depressing really fast. Because if you think about humanity being in charge of all of this, we can't even achieve consensus on some of the most simplistic, basic things. Including resource management. So majority of humans don't have. Like we still have food insecurity on this planet. And there's sectors of the planet where people have an overabundance and obesity based on the fact that there is an overabundance of resources and then there are people starving to death. Today, right now. And we can't fix it. So what makes us think that we'll be able to fix some of these bigger challenges? And that's the big thing. It's always about us. It's not about the technology, it's about how we handle it. And that's where we need to become better. We need to evolve, we need to be humans, a better version of ourselves in order to grow. 

Andrii: Yeah, okay, great. So let's finish this conversation with these optimistic words and hope to speak with you maybe in a few weeks or in few months. 

Jayden: Yes. There's so much going on in the world at this moment that the biggest thing we can do is not disengage and be aware of what's happening outside your industry. So this is the big takeaway. Even people for crypto, if you have blinders on and you're not aware of what's going on in generative AI or in other sectors, it's going to affect you whether you like it or not. 

So it's best that you look to the left and look to the right and not just keep looking forward with your blinders on in your industry. So this is why most of us need to be very aware of the developments that are occurring. 

Andrii: Yeah, great, thanks. We'll observe and analyze all the developments and see you soon. 

Jayden: Bye. Always a pleasure, Andrii.