I Hate to Say It

They don't have a referral program. Come one, come call. It's a fun site.

They don't have a referral program there. But I'd be happy to see you there.

What crypto do they hold?

None. They pay via PayPal in real money.

Oh. How much is the minimum withdrawal then?

Usage of crypto in the world is less than 4%. I don't dispute it is "real," I dispute it performs or acts like money. If I can't use it or spend it, at least easily, it might as well not exist at all.

I liken it to standing in front of a vending machine with a $20 bill. You have money to buy the chips, but it is worthless if the machine only takes dollar bills.

I would dispute fiat is not real as well. It may be mostly faith based, but it is still backed up by GDP. Part of money being "real" is that someone else thinks it has value. Until I can do all the things with my crypto that I can with my fiat, the crypto will have less value to me UNLESS I can convert it to a currency someone else accepts.

Which right now is fiat.

I have tried to explain to you before that fiat is not backed by anything and GDP is only the value of goods and services sold in a year. GDP has nothing to do with the money supply.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_supply

Fiat is just printed paper or numbers in the computers . It is the debt of other people and companies. Nothing else. Governments have decided to use these IOUs as legal tender. That is all. You can of course call debt "real money", but it is not.

The problem with your argument is that it relies on semantics. The fact is that so long as someone has something of value that can be traded for an equal value, it makes the value of whatever is being traded, valuable. Therefore, you can say that any value of goods that can be traded certainly applies to and contributes to the value of the paper money.

When I get a paycheck in fiat it has a value. I am trading my time for some form of compensation that I can then use to buy things I want and need. Regardless of the artificial nature of the form of money, it can be traded for something of equal value and therefore has value that can be summated and summarized and is therefore calculable.

I don't discount your argument. I simply point out that fiat has a calculable value based on what it can do, and that so long as there is something tradable for it, it is part of what determines its value.

The real or fake value, ultimately, has no bearing on the perceived value, and therefore until the perception of value is no more, it can be calculated based on the tradability of the fiat for things of value.

At the same time, I wonder how it is possible to not assign the same concept to crypto? It's a made up thing that only has value when someone is willing to accept it in exchange for something else of equal value to it.

On scale, right now, fiat is far more real than crypto on the basis of how many people believe it is actually worth anything.

You and I might think it is worth something. But Walmart disagrees it has value and therefore trading it for goods of value at Walmart is something I cannot do.

The real or fake value, ultimately, has no bearing on the perceived value, and therefore until the perception of value is no more, it can be calculated based on the tradability of the fiat for things of value.

From my point of view, there is no real or fake value. There is only a price that someone is willing to pay for something. You have to pay a price to get a pizza, a car, an ounce of gold or 100 USD. The price can be measured in BCH, in fiat or in hours of your work (so if you want to get 100$, for example, you have to sacrifice about 1 BCH or let's say 4 hours of your time). The difference between a pizza, a car, an ounce of gold, BCH and fiat is that fiat is tradable debt (and yes, of course debt can have a price and can be traded). The time is special. You can collect BCH, pizzas, cars, USD, but not time. With your time you can only pay.

On scale, right now, fiat is far more real than crypto on the basis of how many people believe it is actually worth anything.

You and I might think it is worth something. But Walmart disagrees it has value and therefore trading it for goods of value at Walmart is something I cannot do.

By your reasoning, I would have to assume that EURO is less real than USD just because Wallmart does not accept it.

Similarly, I would have to argue that USD is less real then EURO because I can't pay my baker with it.

I still think we are talking mostly semantics here. USD and EURO are fiat, and of course will be accepted in the country where they are the prominent accepted currency.

If Walmart was in Europe, they'd take EURO over USD of course. If I have USD I can exchange it for EURO. Or I can pay with my credit card and my credit card company will automatically make the exchange.

If I want to use BCH or Bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency, I will also have to exchange it.

It is less likely that I will have the same opportunity to exchange my crypto for fiat than I will be able to exchange fiat for fiat, because as of now even my credit card company does not recognize it as "real money."

That all aside, one thing I have found with USD is that it is accepted in many more places. For example, if I go to Mexico I can use it. If I go to Jamaica I can use it. If I go to Cambodia, I can use it. I think I could probably even use it in Nigeria.

Places where there is a more solid economy I'd have to use the primary currency most likely. Canada, the UK, Australia, Germany...

I am pretty sure the EURO might also be accepted in the other places I mentioned as well.

If I am lucky I might find a place here and there (shops and stores) where BCH or some other crypto is accepted. But I will be much harder pressed to find those than I will be able to find places that gladly accept fiat.

Again, I am not discounting crypto. I am simply saying it's not nearly as widely accepted as "real money" as pretty much all fiat is. If I decide to go to Europe and I want to buy pounds, are they going to let me use BCH to make the exchange, or will I have to present fiat in order to do that?

But I will be much harder pressed to find those than I will be able to find places that gladly accept fiat.

Of course this is true, just as you will find few places where you can pay with gold or silver coins. Gold and silver coins, like crypto, are real money. Fiat money, on the other hand, is tradable debt. They are debts of people and companies, but mostly they are debts of governments. Governments go into debt to pay for government spending. These debts, called USD, EUR, GBP, etc., are traded and that's what you get as a salary.

And when countries go bankrupt and do not pay their debts, as was often the case in Argentina, for example, the debts are hardly worth anything (no one wants to pay anything for them) and so is fiat currency.

USD has a special role here because it (still) functions as a global world currency.

And the number of places where you can pay with BCH is growing all the time.

https://map.bitcoin.com