19 September 2020

Photo source, LYSE DOUCET
Photo caption,
Shazia Haya talks to senior Taliban leaders
Everyone knows that the Taliban in Afghanistan has discriminated against women. How does it feel when a female journalist confronts some of the men in the group to interview them during a peace talks? And when the interviewer doesn't want to talk to a female journalist - or someone who doesn't look you in the eye - how do you talk to her? The BBC's Shazia Haya has traveled to Doha, Qatar, to cover the historic peace talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government. Let's hear the story behind what is happening there:
"I am not a murderer, but I have been introduced to you as a murderer. I will not talk about politics. Instead, let's make an appointment with all of you. We will have tea together and I will listen to some of your poems."
He said the words softly, with a soft smile on his face.
I did not expect a key Taliban leader to speak in this way.
On the last day of the Afghan government's historic talks with militants in Doha, Qatar, I approached him with a request for an interview.
I will then leave for the airport. Then I saw some members of the Taliban delegation standing in the hotel lobby. They are surrounded by reporters.
This is the last chance to get some great information from him for writing a great report.
But he did not come to Doha to talk about poetry. Neither do I.
'I won't talk'

Photo caption,
The Taliban delegation is arriving at the hotel where the talks will take place. Selfie taken by Shazia.
It is always difficult to gather news of closed-door discussions. The beginning was not at all promising for us.
Doha's Sheraton Hotel stands right on the beach. When I first arrived at the hotel, I saw Taliban leaders walking around.
I left my bag on the floor and walked over to them immediately requesting an interview.
A lot of times if you can catch someone unprepared, they can get the word out. Rather than a very carefully written press release, this is the only way to find a quote that can be used in your report.
"I will not talk," the Taliban leader said immediately.
When I was actually walking towards him with the camera in hand, he was not expecting me.
I realized his discomfort and immediately backed away a little.
I greeted him with a smile and told him that my male colleague would take the interview. I'll be there to catch the camera.
My job in Doha was going to be difficult to talk about, it was quickly becoming clear to me.
Don't keep an eye out

Photo caption,
Shazia Haya is reporting live from the conference room
In the end, however, I was able to interview the Taliban leader, who was reluctant to speak. But throughout the interview, I noticed that he and the other Taliban leaders in his delegation were not keeping an eye on me. It was clear that they were not as comfortable talking to men as they were to girls.
They believe that keeping an eye on a stranger means disrespecting her. In their eyes it is a sin.
I interviewed a Taliban leader for a full three minutes but he never looked at me.
I really believe if he sees me in the future, he can’t even remember that he gave me an interview.
But I was not surprised by any of this. The group that had been in hiding for many years, fighting - seeing them face to face, facing various questions, was also unimaginable a few months ago.
So I was prepared for many more unexpected events.
Historical events

Photo source, AFGHAN DELEGATION
Photo caption,
Shazia with Abdullah Abdullah, leader of the Afghan delegation on the plane
The Afghan government and the Taliban leadership have been in talks for months for such a face-to-face meeting. Their discussion has never been forward, never backward. In the end, they agreed on when and where the meeting would take place. At that time, like many other Afghan journalists, I felt that it was very important for me to cover this historic event.
After decades of bloodshed and bloodshed, the two sides finally agreed to end the war through negotiations.
A new history was unfolding before our eyes.
In the last two thousand years, I have seen many events, many changes. After the fall of the Taliban, a new Afghanistan began. But the new government has to start fighting the Taliban again immediately.
But 17 years later, the two extreme enemies face off at the negotiating table.
What should I wear?
As the plane took off from Kabul for Doha, I was thinking about various aspects of this historic event. The fate of women's freedom from women's rights, starting from the constitution of Afghanistan is a topic of discussion between the two sides.
I was thinking about how to gather the news of this discussion. Who will I interview, what questions will I ask? Apart from these, an issue also came to my mind.
What should I wear? I asked myself.

Photo caption,
Shazia is recording the report at the Sheraton Hotel
This is not a matter of my ego. Many male colleagues may not have such a question in their head.
But as a woman journalist, I have to think about my dress because of the Taliban's strict rules on women's freedom and rights. Although covered from head to toe. The clothes that girls wear to the office every day on the streets of Kabul, the clothes that they don't have to think about a second time, the kind of clothes I wear.
I am here to interview the highest level leaders of the Taliban. The three days I will be here, it is very important to meet them face to face.
Now that I am here in this outfit, 16 years ago it was not possible for me to walk in this outfit.
In Afghanistan at the time, the Taliban imposed strict rules on girls' clothing, requiring them to wear a blue headscarf (a hijab-like garment that covers a woman's head to toe). Those who did not wear it were severely punished by the Taliban.
Read more:
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'Husband beats doctor for naming' - In a country where girls' names are not allowed
Afghan women are playing football at the risk of their lives
How much they have changed now, I wondered. How will they take me now?
'Could be wrong'
I have good reason to expect their position to be more flexible than before.
When I think I was four years old, one day I was going to my aunt's house. My mother was with me, she wrapped herself in a sheet.
When we arrived, he took off his sheet and opened his mouth.

Photo caption,
Shazia is interviewing a released Taliban prisoner
Then a Taliban man came and beat him with a whip. In front of my eyes. The man shouted, 'Cover your face.'
Those memories of my childhood are etched in my mind. I will never forget that day in my life. When we entered my aunt's house, I looked out the window and repeatedly asked my mother if the man was following us, following us.
I told him about this memory when I was talking to a Taliban representative at this conference and I wanted to know his reaction to it.
"There have been many mistakes in the past and these mistakes will never be repeated," he replied calmly.
If this Taliban delegation goes to Kabul now, they will see a lot of change.
An important change is the much more open presence of girls everywhere. At least 25 percent of the seats in parliament are now held by women. They now have a significant position in the media and in the world of entertainment. Many young officers are working in government offices.
Back to school
And the change you will really see is the growing participation of girls and women in education.
My family spent a few months in Pakistan. They returned after the United States invaded Afghanistan. Then the interim government came to power.
I remember a lot of educational ads around Kabul then. One poster had a picture of a smiling boy and a girl going to school. The poster read, 'Let's study.'
My older sister could not study during the Taliban regime. But I asked my father if I could go to school and enroll in the school register.
There are now about one crore students in Afghanistan, a large part of whom are girls.
If there is a peace treaty, which of these achievements must be sacrificed?
Suhail Shaheen is the spokesman for the Taliban's political office in Qatar. I asked him, "If you reach a peace agreement and go to Kabul, will this happen again, can I stand in front of you with my camera and mic in my hand and ask questions?"
"Of course you can," he replied with a smile, "but you have to wear the hijab in the Islamic way."
Questions about freedom
In the corridors of the hotel, I noticed that when foreign women were walking around in different clothes, the Taliban representatives did not have such a headache. At the time, I was wondering if the Taliban would accept such an easy way if every woman in Afghanistan wanted to live as she wished.

Photo caption,
Shazia is taking pictures of the Taliban.
The peace talks between the two sides in Doha will focus on women's rights and women's emancipation.
The Afghan government delegation leading the talks has five women members. Those who have to sit at the negotiating table face to face are all men. The Taliban claim that girls must abide by Islamic Sharia law.
These women, representatives of the Afghan government, have to argue with many other sensitive issues. The achievements of women in the last two decades, will they be respected? These will come back to haunt the talks during the Taliban.
I asked another member of the Taliban delegation what his views were on women. The delegation is discussing on behalf of the Taliban, why there is not a woman?
"We have a lot of educated women; they work behind the scenes and they don't have time to come here," she said.
Then he said again, if the girls want to work, the Taliban have no objection. They want the girls to be comfortable, to be respected. "Unlike you, you're getting tired of working as a journalist here," he joked.
Generation gap
An interesting thing caught my eye in Doha. Here are two generations of the Taliban. There are very heavy, serious old leaders sitting in the front row. In contrast, the young leaders sitting in the back row are much simpler and sociable.
When Mullah Baradar, the leader of the Taliban delegation, enters the conference room, you will immediately realize that the atmosphere is changing. Suddenly everyone seems to be getting numb. But when he is not there, the members of the Taliban delegation seem to be much more normal.
I spoke with nine members of the Taliban delegation. It is much easier to talk to young members of the delegation. They are easy to find, they talk a lot and I am a female journalist.
But it goes without saying that young people or women have no role to play in the Taliban's decision-making process. But the Taliban acknowledge that a large portion of Afghanistan's population today is young.
These young people are learning to read. They have internet, they have smartphones. They are demanding the right to talk about the future of their country.
But what is the future waiting for them now?
From what I have seen in Doha, there may be some promising hints.
But there is no denying that there are far more Taliban-clad Taliban men on the battlefield in Afghanistan than I have ever seen in Doha. They are still fighting there against the Afghan government.