Conversation with Marc De Mesel -Full-Text Version - Crypto and Investing in war times

Below is the full-text version of the Interview with Marc De Mesel @MarcDeMesel on the topic of Crypto and Investing in war times

The video is:

Andrii:

Hello everyone! I'm making interview with Marc De Mesel, a famous investor and especially famous in the Bitcoin Cash community. We spoke a year ago and so many things changed in this year. First of all, thank you Marc for finding time and today our topic would be investing in the war times because we have a war in Ukraine. More than a month ago Russia started a full-scale war attack on Ukraine. For those who might not know, the war was going on for eight years since the annexation of Crimea, but it was a very localized war in the part of the Donbas. There was some a bigger war in 2014-2015 but then it became localized, but Russia as a threat it always remained and now many people did not expect it. For now, it’s more than one month and I understand that it will take some time, it might be for long time. So, whenever I have time, I return to the streaming and I am writing articles and including about crypto, speaking about crypto too. Now I see that in Ukraine we have a bigger interest toward crypto, I personally consulted some people and people from the military about creating wallets, because people want to save value of investment. As so far, the local currency is doing good it did not fail, there was no big inflation, but of course people look for the different sources for the store of value. In such hard times and not only in Ukraine, in the whole world crypto becomes more important.  Do you agree with this statement and what do you think about it?

Marc:

Hi Andrii! Yeah, we did an interview a year ago, it was very popular. Thank you so much, many people I looked at and got to know me better and yourself also. And of course, at the time we got to know you and you're from Ukraine, but in between I've seen that you've traveled the world a lot and you really very focused on the crypto world. Then of course now with this war starting in Ukraine, you're totally involved in that and probably a little bit crypto still, but probably this war is really absorbing you. I'm happy to talk more about that, I wish that you were not there and I wish that you were in a safer place, because I think that's the most important thing here. Making money we can always do later, but being safe is very important and it should be first foremost, but of course there are many other things that play also. I'm not in your shoes that may attract to or decide for you to stay there. We already talked about it personally, it looks like I can't convince you about leaving, so I'm curious to hear more about that later.

What about cryptocurrency, with what happened in Canada first, accounts were frozen of people that was merely supporting a protest and then with the war starting in Ukraine with russia, many russians lost also their assets frozen. Even payment systems like Swift for international payments were like a whole country was excluded from that. It shows to people how important cryptocurrency is to give independence to your finances and to have a means of exchange, a means of payment across boundaries, and even locally that cannot be frozen. So, I think crypto is the fundamentals are certainly improving from that perspective. On the other hand, of course, regulations are there more and more and that of course is also difficult. Regulations really slow down adoption, they can kill it even, but I don't think it's going to be. Even if the goal is to kill it, I don't think it will work, because the value that cryptocurrency offers is too high and the genie is out of the bottle even in countries where it's severely repressed. The government can't stop it. For example, China or where else, well it used to be quite repressed in russia also.

Сryptocurrency finances are improving a lot and, at the same time we haven't finished a bull cycle, so we're still in a bull cycle. Sentiment has been very negative at first with crypto cycle being a lot longer than before and people being too greedy and too optimistic about hitting a new bubble and hitting a new peak, but that didn't happen or it happened, but it's just slow. Then of course some bad things happening, such as the stock market being a little bit difficult and with COVID correcting here and there and of course pulling a crypto also down and then with this war the same happens.

All these events create lots of fear, uncertainty and doubt in the market but just like when you invest in stocks of a company, if the fundamentals are improving, if the company is healthy and making good profits and reinvesting in expansion, if you have such an investment, then you're good in the long term. But of course, in the short-term evaluations fluctuate a lot and it's the same with currencies, but I think financials certainly are good for crypto.

 

Andrii:

Speaking about the cycle, so do you think, how long this bull cycle might last?

 

Marc:

This cycle, it's have been a long time since I did the calculations, so I don't remember the numbers, but my rough estimate would be that over the next year it will peak out, but I said that a year ago also, so I was really wrong with my estimation. The problem with all these kinds of things is like markets always surprise and it always does what people don't expect. Right now, people don't expect for markets to strongly recover, there's lots of negative sentiment about inflation getting out of hand, interest rates going up is bad, stocks are overvalued, a big recession is coming globally. Like this all negative sentiment and only recently added the fear was all over the world, that we would get into a third world war with russia and China versus America and Europe. This is all very negative sentiment, but typically what happens in the markets is that when there's a lot of negative sentiment that it just prices to the upside and so crypto is not done with its cycle, but it's close to being done, because it's been a long time now the bottom was. When was the bottom, December 2018 - we're like almost four years, in half a year we have a four year cycle, that's probably somewhere where we hit the peak also, it can all go very fast. I would say I'm still sticking to my guns here that we will get a peak quite soon in half year to a year at around 10 trillion.

Andrii:

Are you ready to change your portfolio, to make the necessary adjustments? Now correct me if I'm wrong, you have a 70 percent in crypto?

Marc:

Yeah 80 percent.

Andrii:

So, you are ready when you will feel that the bull market is over, you are ready to change your portfolio?

Marc:

Yeah, I actually just made a video on that. I would like to be ideally short crypto, I bet for a small amount like minus 10 percent. Of course, it is very difficult to do that being short something. If I succeed by having no exposure or a very small exposure of maybe 10 percent. That's my goal for the next peak cycle and that's very ambitious, because the previous cycles I've totally failed in that and I was always at the peak of the bubble at an exposure of 70-80 percent and so took huge losses once the bear market started.

Andrii:

In one of your recent videos you mentioned: "buy when there is blood in the streets". Now, unfortunately, we have this situation, we have blood on the streets. Is it time to buy and what exactly to buy?

 

Marc:

Yeah this is of course not a really like great thing to hear when you're in a war zone. It seems like opportunistic, but it is actually a sentence that's very famous in the world of investing and for good reason when there is negative sentiment, there is opportunity. But when there is like blood spilling that's not just negative sentiment - that's drama, is it cannot get worse than that, and of course this has a major effect on valuations of the markets. Usually, during war time things drop to absolute zero and that goes for the most valued assets such as real estate and land that normally never would experience such a big price drop. But during war times they do and it really changes the landscape completely when it comes to what kind of companies that are in that market. I mean it's crazy and I'm curious to hear from you what's happening in the Ukraine there, because I have not really kept up to date about that.

 

Andrii:

Now it happens that we have certain problems with supply chain and some goods which would not expect to be, they might become scarce and very valuable. For example, one of the first day starting, first day and the next several days the benzine and gas for cars was really a scarcity, so there was like no way you could find it, very hard. People of course were willing to pay a very high price maybe 10 times or 100 times more. Because people were looking not for the to buy in the big numbers just for their cars, I don't know 50-100 liters, but there was a problem of this so. I don't know, but maybe some people did make profits on this, but it was temporarily, because sometime after the supply and chains adapted and now we have such goods like a canister and the thing to pour, they also disappeared in the first day. Now I see in the shops they start to appear and there is enough benzine. Of course, it's more expensive than it used to be, there are fewer stations which worked. At some period, there was a limit that you could buy only 20 liters. Another thing is that, for example, the price on the real estate rent in some cities in the West it really rose high, because some of the owners decided to make profit on this. Even some mayors spoke against this and said that such behavior might be punished, if you artificially put the price much higher. At the same time a lot of other people took the refugees for free or for some small amount of money. There will be other things with certain goods, for example, I remember this, the power banks just to charge phones they also all disappeared in the first day. I was looking to buy some to send to the people in the front line and I checked several stores in different cities and there was no there. But this is like simple good and It's actually not expensive and usually most of the people had at home one or two power banks. There are certain particular goods which might still face this scarcity and maybe there is an opportunity to make a production of them if this is something simple. Also, I'm speaking with different investors and businessmen and most of them are really scared to invest in anything, starting from something real like real estate to some other projects.

What do you think, what they should do, should they overcome their fear or should they maybe wait, if they are scared, wait and see what happens?

 

Marc:

Of course, it is difficult call, because there is always a good reason to be scared. It can always get worse and if you look at, for example, real estate in Kyiv, how much percent have prices dropped, do you know that?

 

Andrii:

I didn't check exactly and I think that there will be a drop, because some people who left for Europe, some of them won't return and some people especially those who had real estate as an investment and some people have several flats or several houses, they might need to sell quickly and if they need to sell quickly, let's say one of the flats, they will need to put the price lower. Just one example with the car, I saw Nissan Patrol in a good shape, actually Nissan Patrol is the most popular car in Dubai, but we have a few of them in Kyiv, we have many Toyotas, Toyota Land Cruisers, but few of Nissan Patrols. The thing which I was checking, because some guys needed it, because it's strong car and at the same time it has eight places which is better for evacuation. I helped a little bit with evacuation, but I have a small car, I can take maybe six - maximum five people. It was 17 thousand dollars for sale in Kyiv and some company was selling it. Now I see it appears a bit later in another city in the West of Ukraine, the same photos, same conditions, but now it costs 26 - 27 thousand dollars. Somebody found it as an opportunity for investment.

 

Marc:

In general, the advice is to entrepreneurs and investors there in Ukraine that's in a war zone is to indeed overcome your fear and think about and build the future and invest in things where others don't want to invest. Invest where people are selling and that they don't want to have right now. But once the war is over, they will want to have again and prices will go up again and there will be a shortage, but right now there's an oversupply and nobody wants to have it. I would think that should be happening normally with real estate, land, stocks of Ukraine listed companies or art even, like luxurious goods in general should be correcting a lot. If they have not corrected a lot, then that's not so interesting I would say, because it can still happen, like the war can get worse and Kyiv can become under threat and then that should happen, that these prices collapse because that's what happens typically under in a war zone. But the hardest thing is to take the other side indeed and my advice would be to tell these friends, it depends what you want to do with your life, but if you want to be an investor, your job is to buy when everybody is selling and your job is to sell what everybody is buying. So, if indeed everybody is buying this kind of typical Toyota models or everybody's buying power banks or everybody's buying diesel, well you should be selling that, because there's a shortage of that. You should find ways to sell that, because the prices are also very high and that means the market is signaling: please help us and you can make lots of money doing so. But of course, these are not typically things that investors do this, is what entrepreneurs do with this kind of prompted products, that's not investors but entrepreneurs. But when it comes to investors, it's more about bigger goods of course. It's a different market. There's always politicians try to manipulate prices, but that's not good, you have to let prices run their course, because that's the best for everybody. For example, if people ask higher rents because they can, that means that there is a shortage, that means that there's a high demand. If they can ask for higher rents, that means they will make lots of money, that's very good, because the next thing they will do is they will build more buildings, because there's lots of money to be made with it and the shortage of supply will be solved by high prices. For politicians to say: “No, that's forbidden, it's not a very wise approach!” But okay, do this, this is always what happens with politicians that they get elected and so what they do, is they see things that are popular because they want to get reelected, but people are not so smart to know what's good for them. Often, they think like: “Oh, that's good, this politician says that nobody can raise their prices.” People think that's good, but actually that's bad for them.

 

Andrii:

It depends from what point of view you take. If you look from the point as you explained that's right, because the prices, they will adjust and also that in the West there's not only one city, there are many other cities, but there is a really a big problem with real estate rent there. What I was thinking, maybe some projects like a real estate construction in those regions would be good too, of some cheap hotels, some affordable places.

 

Marc:

It's such a short notice, to start building homes and it's a large or close to a war zone, that's all very risky. But well, if you approach these problems as an entrepreneur and as a capitalist then you're actually going to help yourself a lot more and the world a lot more, and if you think as a socialist, then you're not going to help yourself and you're not going to help the world and so on. That's very difficult to do, because it's very popular to say like: “Yeah, here I have 10 homes, you know, you can all get for free in it, because there's a shortage.” You may look good to people, but what you're doing there, is basically destroying your own business, because you don't make any money from putting people for free, actually you lose money. That means that you can't build any more homes and that means that you're not really solving the problem not for yourself and not for the world.

However, if you do the investing, actually you need buildings for 100 people, I'm going to put the price so high, so that's only the people from those hundred, only the richest can afford it. Because I only have room for 10, I should ask the most optimal price what people are willing to pay for it. If he does that, he's very unpopular because:” Oh look, how much money for his building. What a war exploiter!”, they will call him. “What an opportunist!” But actually, if he does that, he makes lots of money and can immediately build another 10 units in the next few months later and he can really actually solve the problem. He makes lots of money himself and he's really solving the problem by building more homes, but you're not popular, you're not going to get popular by that and that's always how it is. If you want to be popular, well, that's not going to happen as an investor, for that you need to become a politician and spend other people's monies then you can become popular.

 

Andrii:

In general, this negative attitude towards the war profiters and they exist such people, for example, some people which transport people, evacuate people from the dangerous parts and that's from one point it's understandable that it's very risky, so high price might be adjustable, but some people are doing it for free, they're just help others, some like police and the other services also do it for free with the risk in their lives and some people want to profit. But towards the new entrepreneurs who, for example, work online, who create new businesses, new supply chains, I think there can be no negative attitude. If they are doing something, and on the contrary, there is a tendency and especially if it will take long time, if you are not involved in fighting, then you should work, so not to check the news and sit depressed, but if you are working, you are helping economy, because you are spending money and the money are circulating.

That's why I want to ask you, what do you think about some other opportunities and setting new businesses in these times and investing in this?

 

Marc:

I think we just discussed that one, I don't see how I can say more about this, but what are you thinking about?

 

Andrii:

I was thinking about, I mean, that the different businesses, for example, fixing the some supply lines, because there are fewer goods, fewer services and there is some in certain areas the demand is high, but there is just no supply. I can say, for example, in Kyiv now a few restaurants and cafes work. I was actually surprised, I saw the statistics that 1.8 million so almost 2 million of people remained in Kyiv, because now it feels that the city is empty, that we have only few hundred thousand that the majority. For you just to imagine, when it started, I was actually returning to Kyiv and I saw a huge jam of cars which stood for maybe 100 kilometers, maybe more and this jam remained for several days and from my side of the road there were cars coming from another side like breaking the rules and then I understood, that it's even more dangerous to die in such car accident than die from the bomb, because some people were panicking. I mean that, for example, in Kyiv now maybe there are good opportunities for different offline businesses too, because there are a certain amount of people and people with capital, with money. Of course, a lot of pensioners remain, but there are also foreigners who keep coming. I imagine that if the situation in Kyiv will be fine for the next few weeks, more businesses will start to open.

 

Marc:

I think you have of course plenty of opportunity there indeed to make money, but the problem I can see here is that people want to help each other and not make money. Of course, you're not approaching it as an entrepreneur, as an investor and you're not going to make money. I think the challenge here is to approach it as a business and to look at the opportunities, but the risk is that you're going to be stamped as a war profiteer and you probably need to find the right balance there between making money and helping people for free and losing money. For sure, if you want to build anything of skill you will have to respect the money-making part, because in the end the world runs on money. If you approach it wisely indeed and there's shortages, you try to solve that problem. For example, diesel. You need to find an area where you can build some expertise quickly and where you can build connections quickly and get things done. But, if you focus on that, I think this would be the best you can do much better than actively participating in the war and risking your life. I think much better than to approach it as an entrepreneur and solve the lots of problems. At the same time, make money doing so that you can expand the business and help more people. I think that's a very good idea if you decide to stay there, then that would be a very good idea certainly, because others don't have that opportunity, because you have to really be there also to do that. You're also taking advantage of difficult situation you're in, because only that way you can also really do it.

 

Andrii:

For example, one of the areas which looks promising it's import-export, because all the chains were broken, old logistics were hurt and there is a need for something new and to bring more goods in Ukraine and also to export Ukrainian goods. Unfortunately, some companies had to collapse, some production closed, but there is the one which remains and I think that's a perspective. Maybe direction for entrepreneurs also, because Ukraine is on the news in the whole world, maybe there would be special focus for Ukrainian brands too. This is the direction which I won't follow because I really have no expertise in this, but I think it looks promising. What's your opinion?

 

Marc:

Yeah, indeed, but I think it's smart to stay with your field of expertise for you as crypto and there you can solve, because you know how crypto works, you will find certain problems that you can solve with crypto and that's probably where you can stand out and really build something of value for yourself and for the people there. That seems like a very good idea and how has that been going.

 

Andrii:

For example, as you probably know a lot of crypto communities supported Ukraine financially and how is the situation among your friends among your circles and what do you think, this big amount of support, maybe Kyiv will be one of the cryptocurrency centers in future after the victory? Here we usually say not after the war, but after the victory, 95 or something percent of Ukrainians are confident in victory. And, for example, do you plan personally to visit Ukraine in the future for one of the events?

 

Marc:

Actually, during war times innovation accelerates tremendously, and we see that also globally even. It's very surprising how quickly discovered and hysteria is over the moment of that war started in Ukraine, because suddenly people wake up like war wakes people up, like suddenly they see: “Oh my God, this is serious, this is dangerous.” Certainly, all the things that they thought was important becomes less important. But of course, they are not in a war zone, in Ukraine it's a real war zone. In a real war zone typically structures collapse, old models collapse and when they come out of course it's like a fire of a forest, only the biggest and strongest trees maybe keep standing and all the rest is burned down. But this ash will become a very fertile for a new forest to grow and there's a much open space for new small things to grow. So yeah I would agree that Ukraine after the war will see crypto a lot more, for example, these innovations like crypto but also other things probably like, it's hard to say what exactly, but probably more mobile technology apps, maybe electrical vehicles, I don't know, but they will have a faster growth there, you know in a place that had a war, than in a region where there was no war. And yes I would be happy to visit if the opportunity is there, I really look forward to a world that's more peaceful and where we can travel internationally again and this is actually improving a lot right now and thanks to all these COVID sanctions being taken down, really it's very liberating. I'm so happy, because this was also a nightmare, but of course there's nothing compared to a real war. I really hope also that in Ukraine it is resolved as soon as possible and that they compromise and find a peace treaty.

 

Andrii:

The COVID disappeared here in one day, so nobody wears masks and we don't see a lot information about COVID on the news and there fortunately also on the borders people are not needed they call it certificate or test to leave the country. I think also the Ministry of Digital Transformation did a good job, they created the fund with FTX and Everstake and that fundraising campaign got more than 70 million of worth of dollars in different crypto. It's not alone, because there is also SaveLife fund which is known and reputable and some more smaller funds. That's why I thought about it in the beginning and I recorded a video that we can use NFTs for funding and supporting people, but now it went so quickly that I don't need to somehow collect crypto or something else. The idea which I came with, maybe I'll release some of electronic books of my writings older and newer and I'll just put them for sale. In this case I will sell electronic books, I won't need to account or report, but of course the biggest part of that amount I will use to help people, to help different institutes. I already during last time I spent more than I earned, but I continued to work in crypto and now I think I will focus more, because it's really the more you take the more activities you embrace, the more effectively you work. I'm planning to do more and more interviews and first of all thanks for finding time and I plan to invite entrepreneurs and crypto people from those projects which donated to help, because in this way they help Ukraine. I want to help them also to spread information about them, because in any way there is a still a global competition between cryptocurrencies. You are known for supporting Bitcoin Cash and I'm using Bitcoin Cash all the time, I'm still active on read.cash, noise.cash, I'm advising these platforms also for the people who have some time, so they can read articles, write articles. Any other news in crypto which you would like to share maybe some interesting projects?

 

Marc:

Actually, I have not been following up a lot the crypto world but I would agree that for example commodities are expensive and from what you tell me it's even worse, there's their certain commodities very expensive. This is something that I'm selling short meaning I'm borrowing it from others and I'm selling it in the market and promising to pay them back later, but I also have to give collateral in exchange so that they sure to be paid back and that's how it works for a broker. I mean that's something I do and maybe that you find also. I think it's important to us follow your interests and what I have often done is have certain ideas but then not do them and of course it's good to think things over, but you know really successful entrepreneurs they just do do do and they try this and they try that and that's how they do a lot and they achieve a lot. I think yeah if you can take that approach that will go well for you in such a scenario, but I really wish that you would go to a safer place and help and do these things from a distance, because you have many local contacts you can actually get yourself in a safe place and a much safer place and be in contact constantly with people on the ground and to organize things. I think that would be a better approach, but yeah this is not something that you prefer to do.

 

Andrii:

Kyiv is more or less safe place. You know the big problem is that, and this is something that nobody expected, that in some territories what russians do, they don't do war, they do a genocide, they do the genocide in Mariupol - that's the city in the South near the Azov sea, they are doing it for around a month, there are photos everywhere. They did it also around Kyiv in such cities as Irpin, Bucha, Hostomel. If there is a chance for the civilians, if there is a chance that russian forces would approach it's better not to have this risk to be under occupation, because this is the worst thing possible, but in cities which are more far away from the front lines that's okay. There is still a risk that they will bomb the cities because for example I spoke with a friend a philosopher whose building was bombed in Kyiv, the part of the rocket almost completely destroyed the building and he survived, of course he was in the shock and in that particular region in Obolon, I think there was one person died, the building is completely destroyed and almost all the cities were in one way or another hit or attempted to hit, but now there is this chance which is if you compare that’s Kyiv is the big city it's still not so big chance. Speaking about other things like criminals so the real level of criminality it much fell, it's also a bit strange because I thought that maybe it will go up usually in such wars, but no it fell because firstly there is a lot of army and police and just people who take care about safety and security and there is also a moment of national unity so probably even the thieves and criminals they changed somehow the perception.

 

Marc:

I've not actually studied the war there, but I was listening to one interview and this guy said that his fear was that putin in the past during these wars as where was it in another country destroyed the whole city of Dubrovnik or what was it.

 

Andrii:

Maybe it was Chechnya, Grozny.

 

Marc:

And that he might do that again here. That's what comes up for me that might be a real risky if it escalates there that they decide to bomb Kyiv to the ground.

 

Andrii:

I think they can do it only with maybe a nuclear bomb but it will affect also other neighboring countries including russia and belarus, and also how can they explain it to their people who are brainwashed by propaganda, because russian propaganda machine is very strong. In the beginning they don't call it war they call it like a special operation. They wanted to capture Ukraine, to change some rules, change authorities and then maybe they wouldn't destroy. If they destroy Kyiv, which actually is the source of their history, because it used to be thousands of years ago Kyivan Rus' and a lot of russians they think that we've used to be their center because at that time the moscow didn't exist. Kyiv has really a lot of historical places and a lot of international places, a lot of businesses, a lot of capital still and I really doubt that they could do it throw a nuclear bomb but the risk of course exists. What I also like to say that there are people who risk their lives very hard on the front lines so for entrepreneurs it might be not so big problem to risk a capital.

 

Marc:

Yeah I know I was just bringing it up for you like I wouldn't want to lose you and that's what's most on my mind, but yeah it's very different when you're there than when you can judge from the outside. I think it depends on personalities also a lot, but my personality is for sure, I've watched many documentaries on war and I said to myself if anything like that happens in my country, I am not staying to fight, I am leaving, because I don't want to lose my life or risk my life and I will try to get myself out and my family because it's just like something I don't want to go through, but that's me of course. If everybody would do that that wouldn't work either, you need a certain balance, but for you it's different. Have you thought about leaving in the beginning or never? Because the thing is, you also travel, you were not there, even the past years very often abroad and then when it's war you're there, like you should do the inverse.

 

Andrii:

Just a week before it started or maybe less, I was in Dubai visiting some conferences and then I was even thinking that from the maybe economical point of view that's reasonable for me to stay for some time in Dubai because there were a lot of crypto conferences like AIBC and some other, but I returned and I was not thinking of leaving the country but I would say that in Ukraine we have now a consensus and this is like really libertarian society and we even have the saying that everyone at his or her place so this is maybe an issue of total mobilization, but not everyone should mobilize to be on the front line fighting. There are certain levels, there is a level of army which has quite a good amount of people, there is a territorial defense. For example, my friend became the one head of the battalions in this territorial defense and I'm joining his part of territorial defense and there is also a lot of volunteer movement, there are a lot of people who just providing work, services, help the way they can, help informationally, help by helping other people, helping civilians, helping with evacuation, helping with different things and even abroad people are very active helping informationally and boycotting russian companies and putting the pressure on companies not to work with russia to move away from russia. That's a big problem that 80 percent of russians they support this war and support their president and that's very bad because if there would be the pressure and the economic situation in russia would be worse so they can stop and we would save lives because in any way the war will stop someday and the more lives would be saved the better it would be.

 

 

Marc:

It's difficult. I think the problem is you get pulled in that group - fight and you're going to be part of that but I like to pull myself out of there like I think that's also what you need to do if you want to escape these kind of troubles. I think there's a strong case to be made for trying to avoid such reasons for yourself, but also for the world. I mean the war is very dirty and filthy and it's on both sides that you will have very nasty things to happen, it's a very dirty and it only stops when people are tired of it and it can take a long time.

 

Andrii:

You can’t say that on the both sides because here the army is protecting Ukraine and the russians are the invaders they kill, rape, murder civilians and Ukrainians don't do it. Even if some people and that's understandable, that now a lot of people are in rage, they want revenge, but Ukrainian army is at home, we can't take revenge in russia. A lot of people, of course, they want to burn moscow, to destroy russia completely and someday, thinking about geopolitics, I think that someday russia will collapse, because it's like artificial empire it has a lot of regional problems, the sooner it will collapse the better.

 

Marc:

I can see you're really absorbed into the war and I think it's dangerous Andrii. You feel very connected to Ukraine people, part of that group and you want to protect your country. I understand that you're in that situation, but I think the best I can try to do is to convince you to get out of that like I think that would be the best, but okay it has to fit with you and you have to like, want that too. Life is so short and it's already such a challenge and it's not a black and white thing, a lot of things are at play, that you may only later discover and it's best to just be out of a war zone, even if you want to help your own people, it looks like I really can't convince you of that.

 

Andrii:

But now Kyiv is safe and I'm not a hero, I'm not fighting on the front line, because I don't have the skills and as you know, maybe you don't know, that when it started there was such a big lines to the territorial defense to join it, that many people were not accepted.

Now I think everyone could do something to help and even by doing streams from Kyiv, doing some informational things and doing the different, there's really a big variety of things which one can do. I don't feel a big danger now in Kyiv. Of course, when I speak with the foreigners I say like: “Okay, come only if you like the risk”. Because the risk still it is. For example, for you Marc I wouldn't recommend to come now, come maybe for some big crypto event which we will hopefully have in future. There are people who just like extreme sports, for example, who anyway put their life at some small risk. For them, you can come and feel that you are living in the post apocalypses or you are living in the military city, because the war is real and it is close. By being in center you have a small risk but you still have the risks.

 

Marc:

Yeah for sure for sure it's a good comparison indeed, but yeah I'm certainly not that, I don't do risky sports because I don't want to risk my life I want to live long, of course I do some stupid shit also, but I try to minimize it and I look for safety first and foremost. If you would ever change your mind, I'm very happy to help you find a place that's safe and from where you can help others in the region.

 

Andrii:

Thanks a lot, I think we’ll win soon and we'll create some crypto hub here and Bitcoin Cash will be also presented here and I hope we can meet here. Kyiv already has a good infrastructure for doing business and what we need is a victory because without the victory the sky won't open, there is no travel possible, so of course we need to win and then we can rebuild the economy even stronger. And either crypto and blockchain as one of the major areas where we will focus.

 

Marc:

Why did you let yourself grow a beard?

 

Andrii:

Well because of this trend that I will shave it after the victory and also it saves time. Because I don't want to think about it, when the war starts some things become so irrelevant and even crypto. I was thinking okay, I studied crypto protocols for five years

but now they seem to be not so important. Then after some time comes and you have some free time, you understand that to continue to do the video is also good and actually it informs more people about what's going on and crypto is definitely the future of fintech, of finance. Crypto is helping Ukraine that's why I decided to do more live streams.

 

Marc:

Yeah, it's a good idea but I understood that actually people have no shortage of money in Ukraine, because thanks to some app and that all works very well, I heard is that true?

 

Andrii:

Thanks to what?

 

Marc:

An app in Ukraine by the government or something and people are able to pay each other easily and pay shops easily.

 

Andrii:

Well firstly, Ukraine is the homeland of two most technological banks Monobank and Private Bank. Private Bank I think it was the first bank which introduced the mobile payments, so payments by mobile phone, by using your phone number and the banking system works very well and there is also the Diia app which is basically the app which has your documents there and it was used in combination with banks to distribute funds, so some people who were eligible in the regions affected by war, they got some money. This is why I was thinking that it is a very easy would be to implement the digital currency for the Central Bank like CBDC, just do this airdrop and then you can exchange them to hryvna in the app. Maybe it will be done, but of course such help it is only for the small part of the people. It depends from what people were doing, because 80 percent of economy stopped, I heard this percentage, I don't know if it's so, but a big percentage and some people don't have jobs, so it's hurting Ukraine. The banking system works fine, there are shops and the necessity goods, there are places where refugees can get some food for free, get some place for living for some time for free. The economy didn't collapse but it's not in a very good state, that's why also if some entrepreneurs come start building businesses, they will have enough skilled labor force and also will have some opportunities what I'm thinking.

 

Marc:

Thank you for reaching out Andrii!

 

Andrii:

Thank you a lot, hope to see you soon!

Marc:

Me too, I hope we can see each other in better times and yeah congrats for your uplifting and your strong attitude, I think you are a courageous man and I hope things go well for you and your family.

 

Andrii:

Thanks for your time and hopefully speak to you soon!